so, any one mind educating me?

[Artamis_albrya]

Alright - well as I've said before I'm a new user and I would like to know a bit of basic mithology about Werewolfs. Mainly where the Holywood ideas stop and where mithology and common knowlege starts. Perhaps we can educate this new accolite about what a 'true' werewolf is. :panting: thanks!

- Artamis :eviljester2:

[Zenislev]

Originally posted by Artamis_albrya@Apr 22 2006, 03:30 PM
Alright - well as I've said before I'm a new user and I would like to know a bit of basic mithology about Werewolfs. Mainly where the Holywood ideas stop and where mithology and common knowlege starts. Perhaps we can educate this new accolite about what a 'true' werewolf is.* :panting: thanks!

- Artamis :eviljester2:

15208


Oi...well, no one else seems to be stepping up...

If you want the old-school mythos taught as a base, I'm your guy. I will go over the various alterations the myth has gone through, leading up to the present, but a few of them won't be talked about in-depth, given that they either just don't make sense, or they're a load of goth-style bullshit. If you're interested, contact me via IM (MIM or AIM, both are in my profile) or e-mail.

[Kimera]

Hey, that sounds interesting ^^ can I enter the class? =P I wanna be educated too ^-^

[Night Wolf]

I also think most myths are ,like, bullshit, but they help in gettinf inspiration for drawings ^^;

[neoritter]

First off, right off the story of werewolves that are bipedal and half-man, half-wolf. Most if not all stories the person transforms into a full wolf or something looking similar to the wolf. Either way it is four legged and runs on those legs.

A little history, earliest stories date back to Bablyonian times and Greek. King Nebuchanazzer was said to have been cursed with lycanthropy. And

Ways to become a werewolf:
First you do not become a werewolf through bites, the story of werewolf bites is virtually absent from folklore, the concept only nearly exists in Eastern Europe and that came about mainly because of confusion with vampire myths because vampires were said to be able to shift into wolfs.

People were believed to become werewolves mostly through accidents of fate or destiny. Sometimes because of ancestry. And occasionly because of a curse. Sometimes it is an innocent act like drinking from a haunted stream, stumbling across a sorcerer's enchanted belt (more on belts later), or picking a magic flower. In Russian folklore the devil would turn you into a werewolf if he was upset with you, so victims tended to be upright and pious people. Chippewa Indian beliefs state eating meat thats been gnawed by a wolf could make someone a werewolf. Some cases are results of circumstances of birth. The seventh daughter of a seventh daughter would be a werewolf, as would a Catholic's illegimate son (all children are illegitimate for a Catholic Priest). Anyone born on Christmas, babies born with a full set of teeth, or someone born with their head tangled in the caul (birth membrane).
Not all cases are resulted from accidents, some were on purpose. Witches were known to have the power to transform into an animal, and it was thought that even ordinary people could get the ability if they had the right spells, charms, or magic objects. There are numerous chants that can cause it, many calling on some sort of supernatural power to make the chanter into a werewolf; some reffered to the devil while others called on powers that were from a pagan or pre-Christian worldview, such as a great wolf spirit. One Russian method has the person putting a copper knife in a aspen stump and dancing around it while saying the chant. More ways are to drink rainwater that has collected in a wolf's pawprint, eat a wolf's brain, or sleep outdoors on certain nights with the moon shining directly on ones face.

Not all werewolves are maneating killing machines. Some werewolves were harmless or even heroic. In the story of St. Edward the Martyr, a werewolf defends St. Edward's severed head, preventing wild animals from eating it. The Welsh hero Bleiddwn spent the early years of his life as a wolf cub, because he was born when his parents were in wolf form. In India, there is a hero named Bhima-Vrkodara that was a werewolf. In Russia, people believed in the "wawkalak", which was a harmless sort of werewolf that when transformed went to see its relatives. The relatives would recognize the wolf as family and feed and pet it, and the wolf would lick their hands. In Japan, there are legends of a wolf maiden, who is a clever and sometimes tricky character, but seldom dangerous and is mostly interested in marraige.
Even when werewolves did kill people there was often a reason. Random bloodlust killings common to movies are seldom. In one legend a Welsh prince has his werewolf daughter eliminate all of his enemies secretly. In a Russian legend a werwolf killed the abusive husband that she was forced to marry. Viking werewolves killed as war heroes and to protect the lives of their family. Evil werewolves killed for selfish reasons. They would murder rivals out of jealousy, kill people who had insulted them or slaughter humans for food.

Okay, thats alot, I'll stop here and post more later, Zen feel free to add...

[Artamis_albrya]

Wow, thats a lot of useful information. I actually enjoyed reading it. Well that banashes most of my theorys on Werewolfs. It's cool how much you can learn from people who are actually willing to teach you a few things.

- Artamis :eviljester2:

[neoritter]

Originally posted by Artamis_albrya@Apr 22 2006, 10:33 PM
Wow, thats a lot of useful information. I actually enjoyed reading it. Well that banashes most of my theorys on Werewolfs. It's cool how much you can learn from people who are actually willing to teach you a few things.

- Artamis :eviljester2:

15249

Oh, I got more, sit tight grasshopper.

[Zenislev]

Originally posted by neoritter@Apr 22 2006, 10:16 PM
First off, right off the story of werewolves that are bipedal and half-man, half-wolf. Most if not all stories the person transforms into a full wolf or something looking similar to the wolf. Either way it is four legged and runs on those legs.

A little history, earliest stories date back to Bablyonian times and Greek. King Nebuchanazzer was said to have been cursed with lycanthropy.* And

Ways to become a werewolf:
First you do not become a werewolf through bites, the story of werewolf bites is virtually absent from folklore, the concept only nearly exists in Eastern Europe and that came about mainly because of confusion with vampire myths because vampires were said to be able to shift into wolfs.

People were believed to become werewolves mostly through accidents of fate or destiny.* Sometimes because of ancestry.* And occasionly because of a curse.* Sometimes it is an innocent act like drinking from a haunted stream, stumbling across a sorcerer's enchanted belt (more on belts later), or picking a magic flower.* In Russian folklore the devil would turn you into a werewolf if he was upset with you, so victims tended to be upright and pious people.* Chippewa Indian beliefs state eating meat thats been gnawed by a wolf could make someone a werewolf.* Some cases are results of circumstances of birth.* The seventh daughter of a seventh daughter would be a werewolf, as would a Catholic's illegimate son (all children are illegitimate for a Catholic Priest).* Anyone born on Christmas, babies born with a full set of teeth, or someone born with their head tangled in the caul (birth membrane).
Not all cases are resulted from accidents, some were on purpose.* Witches were known to have the power to transform into an animal, and it was thought that even ordinary people could get the ability if they had the right spells, charms, or magic objects.* There are numerous chants that can cause it, many calling on some sort of supernatural power to make the chanter into a werewolf; some reffered to the devil while others called on powers that were from a pagan or pre-Christian worldview, such as a great wolf spirit.* One Russian method has the person putting a copper knife in a aspen stump and dancing around it while saying the chant. More ways are to drink rainwater that has collected in a wolf's pawprint, eat a wolf's brain, or sleep outdoors on certain nights with the moon shining directly on ones face.

Not all werewolves are maneating killing machines.* Some werewolves were harmless or even heroic.* In the story of St. Edward the Martyr, a werewolf defends St. Edward's severed head, preventing wild animals from eating it.* The Welsh hero Bleiddwn spent the early years of his life as a wolf cub, because he was born when his parents were in wolf form.* In India, there is a hero named Bhima-Vrkodara that was a werewolf.* In Russia, people believed in the "wawkalak", which was a harmless sort of werewolf that when transformed went to see its relatives.* The relatives would recognize the wolf as family and feed and pet it, and the wolf would lick their hands. In Japan, there are legends of a wolf maiden, who is a clever and sometimes tricky character, but seldom dangerous and is mostly interested in marraige.
Even when werewolves did kill people there was often a reason.* Random bloodlust killings common to movies are seldom.* In one legend a Welsh prince has his werewolf daughter eliminate all of his enemies secretly.* In a Russian legend a werwolf killed the abusive husband that she was forced to marry.* Viking werewolves killed as war heroes and to protect the lives of their family.* Evil werewolves killed for selfish reasons.* They would murder rivals out of jealousy, kill people who had insulted them or slaughter humans for food.

Okay, thats alot, I'll stop here and post more later, Zen feel free to add...

15247


Oh my goodnes-golly-gosh-gee wizz, you have actually taken some time and read up on this. *Wipes a tear from his eye* My little bible-beater is growin' up so fast.

The deals that need adding are as follows:

The bipedal variant did indeed come around much later, and in fact weren't even associated with the wolves themselves. There were Hyenas in Africa, Jaguar Shamans in south America, as well as the various shamans all across north america who were said to be able to become "like beasts." In all reality, the bipedal bit that you're familiar with wasn't even known about until you hit the universal studios move "The Wolfman." Now-a-days, the bipedal werecreature is more common than the olden-days animals (be they large variants or not) because it's just easier to identify with. You can see the person and the animal.

This is not to say that zoomorphic individuals aren't just as old (if not older than) as the werecreature myths. The ancient Egyptian gods are prime examples.

The deal with becomming a werecreature has always been really, really, really vague. Recently, you'll see Lycanthropy described as sort of a virus. One that is transmitted through contact with bodily fluids (saliva, blood, semen, etc). However, as Ritter stated, there were a ton of ways. Hell, even drinking downstream from a wolf was supposed to do it. The belts he talked about were usually made of flesh of some sort. Be it animal skin, human skin, whatever, it had to be a belt made of flesh. Of course, none of this shit works. At all. You'd be suprised at what your friends are willing to try for five bucks (no, not the skin belt. That'd cost at least 20.)

This brings us up to the many, many current incarnations of the werecreature. As I'm sure you've gathered by now, it's not limited to just wolves. If it's an animal, there's a werecreature for it. Along with this has come the idea that a werecreature could change gender. Personally, I can't see why this would happen. At all. Some will argue that it's plausible, but, that doesn't matter. It's also plausible that I could jump toward the ground and float. Statistics say so. Is it gonna happen? No, there's no reason for it to.

Now we venture into how the term "were" is used today:

Therianthropes. They use the term "were" to describe themselves. Does this mean they get all fuzzy and shit durring full moons? Oh, christ no. Therianthropy is a spiritual/psychological set of beliefs. It can be most likened to a sort of species dysphoria (meaning you feel like your body doesn't match your "soul" or psyche). Your average "shifter" isn't talking about physically changing their shape (if they are, this person is an idiot. Be sure to tell them that.), but rather a change in their thought processes, feeling phantom limbs (much like an amputee does. 'Cept here, it's a tail, or pointed, longer ears, or something of the sort), or changing shape in their dreams. This is, of course, not to say that your average person can't or won't experience these things.

In movies:

Ugh. Watching a modern werewolf movie is akin to watching a snuff film. To quote Penny Arcade a bit: My favorite mythos is dragged on screen, and subsequently tortured and murdered before my eyes.

Cases for this:
Underworld. They looked nothing like the animals they were supposed to be.

Cursed: Ahahahahaha!

Harry Potter <insert lame fucking subtext here>: Someone give that poor werewolf a sandwich.

People also tend to adapt these myths to their own stories. As a result, we get a few categories that we can throw werecreatures into. Those are as follows:

The afflicted: They caught lycanthropy. Bitten, scratched, screwed (a la Peter is the Wolf), or whatever. They weren&#39;t born with it, and the cause is biological. Basically your standard werewolf.

Born: Just like it sounds. Lycanthropy is in their family.

Sleepers: This one kind of goes with therianthropy a bit. There&#39;s no biological cause for the shapeshifting, and more often than not, the victim (for lack of a better word), has no idea that they&#39;re not quite normal. The actual metamorphosis comes as a result of something being triggered on a level other than physical. These also tend not to be contagious.

Easily accessible examples: Luna of Leo&#39;s comic, and my own character (currently in the forum role play), Zenislev.

The role of silver:

Well, we&#39;ve all heard that silver&#39;ll kill a werebeast, and that they&#39;re supposed to be invulnerable to everything else and blah blah blah blah...

This is a straight-up "no." Silver is a purifier (as are all precious metals in mythology) and as such, would separate the "impure" (the animal) from the "pure" (the person). In short, it makes them switch shape.

So, if silver isn&#39;t your cure-all, how do you bring one down? By any means you&#39;d bring down anything else. A pointy stick in the right place&#39;ll do it.

One day, I&#39;ll look back on what I know, and laugh.

[neoritter]

Originally posted by Zenislev@Apr 22 2006, 11:00 PM
Oh my goodnes-golly-gosh-gee wizz, you have actually taken some time and read up on this. *Wipes a tear from his eye* My little bible-beater is growin&#39; up so fast.

LOLZ, anyway, I have said I like myths and legends. Bible-beater meh not really, read it yes, not all of it. But I&#39;ve also read some of the Koran. Still looking for a translated Torah.
Anyway.....

To be a werewolf you don&#39;t have to shift physically, in some cases the werewolf is the man and the beast, two seperated entities. That while the man sleeps the wolf is on the prowl and vice versa. These are called Phantom Werewolves.
IMO - these were just made up to scare the kids that still didn&#39;t believe in werewolves. Also those people who have so called dream shifted are mostlikely referring to this.

Phantom Werewolves:
Like I said, a phantom werewolf is a werewolf with two bodies, one walks while the other sleeps. This idea was presented in many witch trials, where magic made it possible for the witch to be in two place at one time. Sometimes phantom werewolves were thought to possess real wolves, while other times it was said that the werewolf had created a somewhat physical phantom wolf body. People believed that if the wolf body was killed the human body would be found dead in bed, usually with exactly the same marks on his body.
In some legends where a seperate wolf body was created, it was thought of as something closely related to a spirit or a ghost, liable to lose its solidity and fade away. One tale tells of a woman in Britain in the 19th century who was walking home late one night when she saw a strange figure that looked like a man with a wolf&#39;s head. It had its attention on a rabbit when a deer rushed out scared the rabbit and the wolf figure dissappeared.
There is another story that occured in the 19th century in India. There was a man who told authorities that he was the hippo that was terrorizing the people, the man was held in the prison and the hippo was killed, where upon the man also died in his sleep.

[Zenislev]

Originally posted by neoritter@Apr 23 2006, 12:52 AM
LOLZ, anyway, I have said I like myths and legends. Bible-beater meh not really, read it yes, not all of it. But I&#39;ve also read some of the Koran.* Still looking for a translated Torah.
Anyway.....

To be a werewolf you don&#39;t have to shift physically, in some cases the werewolf is the man and the beast, two seperated entities. That while the man sleeps the wolf is on the prowl and vice versa. These are called Phantom Werewolves.
IMO - these were just made up to scare the kids that still didn&#39;t believe in werewolves. Also those people who have so called dream shifted are mostlikely referring to this.

Phantom Werewolves:
Like I said, a phantom werewolf is a werewolf with two bodies, one walks while the other sleeps.* This idea was presented in many witch trials, where magic made it possible for the witch to be in two place at one time. Sometimes phantom werewolves were thought to possess real wolves, while other times it was said that the werewolf had created a somewhat physical phantom wolf body.* People believed that if the wolf body was killed the human body would be found dead in bed, usually with exactly the same marks on his body.
In some legends where a seperate wolf body was created, it was thought of as something closely related to a spirit or a ghost, liable to lose its solidity and fade away. One tale tells of a woman in Britain in the 19th century who was walking home late one night when she saw a strange figure that looked like a man with a wolf&#39;s head. It had its attention on a rabbit when a deer rushed out scared the rabbit and the wolf figure dissappeared.
There is another story that occured in the 19th century in India.* There was a man who told authorities that he was the hippo that was terrorizing the people, the man was held in the prison and the hippo was killed, where upon the man also died in his sleep.

15260


I&#39;ll hit this in order:

1. Oh, learning Hebrew/Yittish isn&#39;t that hard. If I did it, you can too. But, I do know that there are Torah&#39;s in english, I might know where to get one, too...I&#39;ll update that as I search my brain.

2. No no no no no. That is beyond not what therianthropes refer to when they say "dream shift". Here&#39;s what that is: Literally just a dream of themselves physically changing into the animal they identify with. Nothing more. The sane ones will realize it&#39;s just a dream. The whack-jobs will take it as an omen that they can physically shape shift. The trouble is that people (therians and non-therians) will have these dreams at some point in time. They don&#39;t mean anything.

Anyway, that type of wolf is more commonly simply called a phantom wolf, rather than "werewolf". The "Were" being derived from "wer" which is "man", you see. The deal with them is that the human and the wolf aren&#39;t really "one." They don&#39;t inhabit the same body, and therefore, simply aren&#39;t a "werewolf" or other werecreature.

Whereas the information Ritter provided is solid, that&#39;s just a misconception among some people. Not much more than arguing semantics.

[Artamis_albrya]

Okay, so I think I get the point. So Werewolfs aren&#39;t technically really people &#39;shifting&#39; into beasts (Vanhelsing for exsample) and can&#39;t be killed by silver. So all those movies, books, stories, and myths that I&#39;ve seen/read are just a crock of bull? I can understand the whole dream thing. I am obsessed with wolfs (I&#39;ve got two half breads my self) and I often dream as one. I don&#39;t know if that puts me into any catagory but if I understand it correctly than Werewolfs are just people who want to beleave that they are more than normal. Is that correct or did I misinterpret?

- Artamis :eviljester2:

[Zenislev]

Originally posted by Artamis_albrya@Apr 23 2006, 03:38 PM
Okay, so I think I get the point. So Werewolfs aren&#39;t technically really people &#39;shifting&#39; into beasts (Vanhelsing for exsample) and can&#39;t be killed by silver. So all those movies, books, stories, and myths that I&#39;ve seen/read are just a crock of bull? I can understand the whole dream thing. I am obsessed with wolfs (I&#39;ve got two half breads my self) and I often dream as one. I don&#39;t know if that puts me into any catagory but if I understand it correctly than Werewolfs are just people who want to beleave that they are more than normal. Is that correct or did I misinterpret?

- Artamis :eviljester2:

15296


The "real" ones are. The ones you find in fantasy novels, online comics, and games of all sorts are the ones that physically change shape.

And, dreaming that you&#39;re an animal isn&#39;t uncommon.

[neoritter]

What I don&#39; t like about the werewolf myths is that there are soooo many of them, and there are numerous versions. Leads me to believe that werewolves are stories to scare children.

Anyways....
Portugese werewolves (lobis-homem):
These werewolves are huge cowards, that is generally female. They looked like wolves with stumpy tails with yellowish fur. Few people have really had a good look at these werewolves because they are extremely frightened of light. When in their wolf form they can barely tolerate a candle. They are said to crowd up around lone country cottages at night and make horrible human sobbing noises mixed with wolfish howls. Residents were not scared of this because the werewolves were only begging for the lights to be put out, and when they were put out they would depart (another scratch against violent werewolves). They weren&#39;t things to fear so much feel sorry for. To become one all that was required was to go out to an ancient crossroad (note: old crossroads are important in many legends) and spin around while howling until they fell to the ground. Then you would assume either the shape of a wolf or the shape of the last animal that had lain in that spot and be a shapeshifter for life (though why you would want to be this kind of werewolf escapes me). While in human form a werewolf could be spotted out by finding a section of pale skin that looked like a crescent moon, it was believed that evil Muslim Moors would place the mark on innocent people.

French werewolves:
The French werewolf is the most popular among the werewolves for use in stories. The French word loup-garou is the most widely known foreign substitute. This version is frequently found in today&#39;s fantasy novels. There are two other kinds of werewolves though. The first called the Lupin or Lubin is from Normandy. The lupin was usually female and a terrible coward (boy writers had it out for women back then...). Lupins gathered in old cemeteries at night and the more fiercer lupins of the group would dig up bodies and eat them. Most though were so harmless they wouldn&#39;t even hurt the dead much less a living person. Lupins spoke in their own language which sounded like humans voices muttering.

The next kind is called the bisclavret and the word is usually translated as werewolf but can apply to any werebest. This kind is from Brittany. Anyone who had missed going to confession for 10yrs was vulnerable to becoming one, especially if they hadn&#39;t used holy water during that time. This type was also said to be protected by witches. Some stories involve a hunter chasing a wolf and are distracted by a strange woman who comes out of nowhere and offers them food. Again this type of werewolf was supposedly harmless.

[Night Wolf]

I guess They are...so much that I&#39;ve seen people creating their own &#39;&#39;race&#39;&#39; of werewolves oO
I just find those interesting to read =3

[neoritter]

Originally posted by Night Wolf@Apr 23 2006, 05:03 PM
I guess They are...so much that I&#39;ve seen people creating their own &#39;&#39;race&#39;&#39; of* werewolves oO
I just find those interesting to read =3

15302

Really most of the stories are seem like people trying to make a situation into a werewolf sighting. Its as if you saw one you suddenly became famous or something.

[Zenislev]

Originally posted by neoritter+Apr 23 2006, 04:39 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(neoritter &#064; Apr 23 2006, 04:39 PM)</div>
What I don&#39; t like about the werewolf myths is that there are soooo many of them, and there are numerous versions.* Leads me to believe that werewolves are stories to scare children.


15301
[/b]

Scaring children, enforcing common sense, and warning against believing/practicing any religion/magic(k) that wasn&#39;t commonly accepted. Good examples of this:

If you drink out of a paw print, you become a werewolf. Moral: Feet are dirty, don&#39;t drink the water, you dolt.

If you drink from the same place a wolf has, you become a werewolf. Moral: Again, don&#39;t drink water you know to be contaminated, you dolt.

Sleeping under the full moon makes you a werewolf. Moral: Find shelter.

Bites can make you a werewolf. Moral: Don&#39;t piss off animals, they spread disease.

Not going to confessional can make you a werewolf. Moral: Go to church, you heathen-devil worshipin&#39; sodomite.

Etc.

<!--QuoteBegin-neoritter@Apr 23 2006, 05:15 PM
Really most of the stories are seem like people trying to make a situation into a werewolf sighting.* Its as if you saw one you suddenly became famous or something.

15307


People do this all the time with everything, not just werewolves. I recently talked to a young man who claimed he saw Tyrael of Diablo II in his back yard. The deal is that people say stupid shit all the time. Why? Because through the magic of television, video games, and various other forms of entertainment, these individuals have decided their lives are entirely too boring, and need to spice things up in order to even function. To this, I say: If I&#39;m not allowed such complete escapism, then no one is. It&#39;s only fair. So, I encourage...no, I urge people all over to call this shit when they see it. Let&#39;s make it known that no matter how much someone may want it, they can&#39;t become a werecreater/vampire/demon/angel/power ranger/whatever. Let&#39;s hammer the point of "magic doesn&#39;t do anything more than religion does" home. To quote the Something Awful article Happygun and I have linked on this site, let&#39;s go fucking get them.

[neoritter]

I already knew that Zen, but thanks for the refresher. :)

[Indiana_Jones]

I already know about the &#39;true werewolves&#39; in myths, legends, and native american folklores.

In movies, some novels, stories are making werewolves like evil, bloodlusting, worthless creatures and most of them are males in most american fictions. That is no right making up fictional shit like that. In fantasy novels, wereanimals can good and evil.

[neoritter]

Originally posted by Indiana_Jones@Apr 23 2006, 09:37 PM
I already know about the &#39;true werewolves&#39; in myths, legends, and native american folklores.

In movies, some novels, stories are making werewolves like evil,* bloodlusting, worthless creatures and most of them are males in most american fictions. That is no right making up fictional shit like that. In fantasy novels, wereanimals can good and evil.

15344

If you think about, many of those old folklores are probably fictional too. Meaning someone made it up. Thats if we assume some of the folklores are true, if they are all false then it is all fiction.

[kitetsu]

Wow.

If wikipedia fucks me over with this issue, i&#39;m definitely bookmarking this as a hotspot for future references.

Do tell us more if anyone has any other info not mentioned.

[neoritter]

Wikipedia says other stuff? I&#39;ll have to check that out.

[Lycanthropy]

I think all the myths are just that myths. Though I like to hope there may be something like a werewolf out there...

[Indiana_Jones]

Wikipedia topics can be edited by everyone you know? So, that&#39;s the &#39;bad&#39; thing about it&#33;

[Zenislev]

Originally posted by neoritter@Apr 23 2006, 11:12 PM
If you think about, many of those old folklores are probably fictional too. Meaning someone made it up.* Thats if we assume some of the folklores are true, if they are all false then it is all fiction.

15354


They&#39;re all garbage, really. People tell stories. It&#39;s part of who we are as a species. That&#39;s the trouble with the "truth" about creatures that don&#39;t exist: There simply is no truth, because the very thing we&#39;re dealing with is false. There is, however, a way to separate what does, and doesn&#39;t make sense. That being the same thing that so many people these days lack: Common goddamn sense. Does it really make sense that drinking out of a pawprint will turn you into a werecreature? No. Is it more plausible that it&#39;s actually a virus that&#39;s transmitted via bodily fluids? Yeah. Quite a bit. That&#39;s why that connotation has stuck around for so long.

However, as I mentioned before, with most people lacking common sense, we get a whole crap load of things thrown into the mix that are just plain crazy.

Example: Peter is the Wolf. The female lead (Peter&#39;s girlfriend. Hell if I know her name.) basically only has one thing on her mind while transformed: Sex. Yeah...now I realize this caters to a very specific audience (I&#39;m lookin&#39; at you, OWAM.), but come on. You&#39;d think that maybe...I dunno...food would be up there as well. Or sleep. Or any other basic biological need.

Then we get the deal where there&#39;s basically no mental repercussions with these shapeshifters. Seriously, you think someone&#39;s gonna be able to cope with that on their own? Hell no&#33; That&#39;s going to cause such a tremendous amount of identity issues (especially in the late teens-early twenties individuals that usually show up) that they&#39;d be lucky if they didn&#39;t develope Dissociative Identity Disorder (used to be called Multiple Personality Disorder). The face in the mirror, the hands on the wrists, the feet, the way they walk, the way they think, nothing would be recognizeable. They&#39;d feel like they were someone else because, in essence, they would be. Do you have any idea the amount of psych support a werecreature would need? So very much, that you probably can&#39;t even imagine the bill. However, do we ever see this in movies, comics, etc? No. It&#39;s conveniently ignored in order to glorify the supernatural creature for people who just can&#39;t seem to break the idea that there is no magic cure-all.


Originally posted by Indiana_Jones@Apr 25 2006, 06:57 PM
Wikipedia topics can be edited by everyone you know? So, that&#39;s the &#39;bad&#39; thing about it&#33;

15586


Such is the problem with Wikipedia...the people who have no idea what they&#39;re talking about can over-write the people with functioning brains. I visited the Alchemy article once, and saw a basic plot synopsis to Full Metal Alchemist. Note: Full Metal Alchemist has about as much to do with actual alchemy as my foot has to do with the making of a television.

[kitetsu]

Originally posted by Zenislev@Apr 25 2006, 05:16 PM
Then we get the deal where there&#39;s basically no mental repercussions with these shapeshifters. Seriously, you think someone&#39;s gonna be able to cope with that on their own? Hell no&#33; That&#39;s going to cause such a tremendous amount of identity issues (especially in the late teens-early twenties individuals that usually show up) that they&#39;d be lucky if they didn&#39;t develope Dissociative Identity Disorder (used to be called Multiple Personality Disorder). The face in the mirror, the hands on the wrists, the feet, the way they walk, the way they think, nothing would be recognizeable. They&#39;d feel like they were someone else because, in essence, they would be. Do you have any idea the amount of psych support a werecreature would need? So very much, that you probably can&#39;t even imagine the bill. However, do we ever see this in movies, comics, etc? No. It&#39;s conveniently ignored in order to glorify the supernatural creature for people who just can&#39;t seem to break the idea that there is no magic cure-all.

15598


You&#39;re saying that you actually support and/or approve the overused "Jekkyl and Hyde" cliche done in many werewolf movies?

[Happygun]

Hey, it&#39;s a powerful, pervasive theme in literature and beyond.

[Zenislev]

Originally posted by kitetsu@Apr 26 2006, 01:07 AM
You&#39;re saying that you actually support and/or approve the overused "Jekkyl and Hyde" cliche done in many werewolf movies?

15637


Not necessarily "Jekkyl and Hyde". The spectrum of personalities is much more broad than "good" and "evil". The human brain of the werecreature could be perfectly nice, as could the non-human bit. They just wouldn&#39;t share memories or an identity (or a name for that matter.)

[Happygun]

Hey Zenislev, if you&#39;re in New York, isn&#39;t it like 5 or 4 in the morning there right now?

[Zenislev]

Edit: Double post.

[Zenislev]

Originally posted by Happygun@Apr 26 2006, 02:50 AM
Hey Zenislev, if you&#39;re in New York, isn&#39;t it like 5 or 4 in the morning there right now?

15643


That it is (about 4). I tend to sleep during the day. No class tomorrow.

[Tyraelis]

I couldn&#39;t do that Zen... if I do that, I tend to get inverted sleep schedules and have a tough time reverting to the normal daylight hours.

Yet I still stay up this late...

[kitetsu]

Originally posted by Happygun@Apr 25 2006, 11:10 PM
Hey, it&#39;s a powerful, pervasive theme in literature and beyond.

15638



I hate it. But that&#39;s just me. :thpt:

[WLewy]

Thats some knowledge of werewolves.:HighlySurprised:
I read trough it due to my lack of knowledge of such creatures .Most of them posted by Neoritter and Zenislev .
At least I know a bit more of werewolf myths, legends.
It must have taken you a lot of time gathering such information. If you have any addable info , post it.

[Vain]

Thats some knowledge of werewolves.:HighlySurprised:
I read trough it due to my lack of knowledge of such creatures .Most of them posted by Neoritter and Zenislev .
At least I know a bit more of werewolf myths, legends.
It must have taken you a lot of time gathering such information. If you have any addable info , post it.

Those two are always a bit over advertised. Most of the stuff I've read from all these guys are so generalized that they don't go into anything new. I suggest doing your own research than be awed by so called experts. Plus, those comments are so cliche. Not all werewolf legends are the Dr. Jekkel and Mr. Hyde stuff.
Come on, it's fiction. Nothing is certain with fiction. You'd get better answers at a star trek convention about anti matter than something about werewolves on the internet. There's not comparative research here. People pick what they like and call it absolute. IT'S FICTION! Don't believe it and don't trust them because one says he's your man for the answer. That crap!
As for my input, folklore is passed down from person to person. The stories are altered and almost always the exaggerated. And they're exaggerated in the first place. Folk stories were to invoke emotion from those stories of old. They were to not only scare, but to create a feeling of uncertainty. That uncertainty is build the need to fear and encourage the exploration of the great unknown. With werewolves, it wasn't always to inflict fear on children. Stories of werecreature were also to introduce drama, morals and ethics into fantasy setting, making it more interesting. Take the legends of the kitsune. Of all the legends of the werecreatures, those are my favorite. Instead of the evil, demonic werewolf eating women and children there is the intimate and mysterious qualities of the werefox. Instead of feeding off of the flesh of man, the kitsune is often said to have feed off of the emotions, even sexual energies, of the man.
Check it out and research on your own. Hopefully someone will actually find something that isn't mainstream when it comes to this subject. This 'state the obvious stuff' is getting boring.

[WLewy]

As for my input, folklore is passed down from person to person. The stories are altered and almost always the exaggerated. And they're exaggerated in the first place. Folk stories were to invoke emotion from those stories of old. They were to not only scare, but to create a feeling of uncertainty. That uncertainty is build the need to fear and encourage the exploration of the great unknown. With werewolves, it wasn't always to inflict fear on children. Stories of werecreature were also to introduce drama, morals and ethics into fantasy setting, making it more interesting.
Well I don't know those two that much as still new here, but their answers contain some truth.
But related to folk stories I just heard enough from locals . Of course the same story a bit twisted from one person to another.Oh and the same stuff "huge creatures...eat human flesh"...bla,bla,bla :wacko:
Of course when I asked them , have they seen one recently they changed the subject suddenly.Oh these old man...:cry:
Some who had something to fry said simply:...they don't exist...
Then the better way to have some information of them is to search , in books , net,...
Well it's a bit boring.
Some links or info might help:howl:

[SilverBack Novelist]

[CODE]
Some who had something to fry said simply:...they don't exist...
[/COLOR]

That's the general consensus of a lot of people, even here. And, never mind the fact that it's just a conversation about myths. You'd figure they'd at least talk about it because they're fans, but no. Those certain people like grilling other people and so it instill fear for that person, creating a false sense of power. It's really sad. Look at a few closed thread. You'll see that it's because people like to cause trouble and harass other members of this forum that this type of thread is often closed.

As for some origins of werecreatures, I remember one growing up. My mother came from Thailand and so she had a few childhood stories from that land. She told me of one about a weretiger. It was about a man who went hunting. He wanted to kill a tiger for its pelt and medicine, because the people of his village were very sick. He managed to find a tiger that was weak enough for him to kill. When he killed a tiger, he didn't realize until he cut it open that it was going to give birth. He felt sorry for the tiger and lay it to rest, leaving it as a whole and never taking what he needed. At some point on his way home, he fell asleep. When the man woke up he was a tiger. He went back to his village. His friends and family ran in fear, even his wife and child. The tiger left his home and went to a cliff. He jumped off and killed himself. That wasn't the end of the story, though. The spirit lived on and continued to watch over his village and his family. The ghost tiger would be seen every so often, as it would protect the village it once called home. So, the villagers created a shrine of the tiger, letting what ever came upon the land know that the village had a protector.

This story was indeed about morals and ethics. The man took a life and so his life was forfeited. He took away a tiger's family and so his family was taken. And, because he attacked something that couldn't defend itself he would have to go on in the afterlife protecting that which he loved.

[neoritter]

First thanks for the off topic portions of your posts Vain and SBN.
As for not believing me, some of the stuff I put in this topic came straight from a book I own. And no its not overgeneralized. I pointed out misperceptions of werewolves such as being evil, and told you that most are not, its a rarity. So the perception that hollywood gives of evil werewolves is slightly false.

And if it seems over generalized I'm sorry. I don't have hours upon hours of time to right down pages of info for people on something so trivial. And heck I threw in some facts on werewolves from different areas like Portugal. I suggest you guys cut down on the rabble rousing and personal attacks there.

[WLewy]

As for some origins of werecreatures, I remember one growing up. My mother came from Thailand and so she had a few childhood stories from that land. She told me of one about a weretiger. It was about a man who went hunting. He wanted to kill a tiger for its pelt and medicine, because the people of his village were very sick. He managed to find a tiger that was weak enough for him to kill. When he killed a tiger, he didn't realize until he cut it open that it was going to give birth. He felt sorry for the tiger and lay it to rest, leaving it as a whole and never taking what he needed. At some point on his way home, he fell asleep. When the man woke up he was a tiger. He went back to his village. His friends and family ran in fear, even his wife and child. The tiger left his home and went to a cliff. He jumped off and killed himself. That wasn't the end of the story, though. The spirit lived on and continued to watch over his village and his family. The ghost tiger would be seen every so often, as it would protect the village it once called home. So, the villagers created a shrine of the tiger, letting what ever came upon the land know that the village had a protector.

This story was indeed about morals and ethics. The man took a life and so his life was forfeited. He took away a tiger's family and so his family was taken. And, because he attacked something that couldn't defend itself he would have to go on in the afterlife protecting that which he loved.


In my country some poeple have a strong belief in myths. Can blame them (Some don't even know what a TV is , they probably know what a radio is ,still...)
Most of what I found of my countries folk related to werewolves wasn't much. It seems that they took vampires and werewolves under the same hat...
There is a folk of Norse Fenris, the werewolf that can swallow the moon and the sun and is thus responsible for eclipses.
...man that's one hungry werewolf...

[SilverBack Novelist]

First thanks for the off topic portions of your posts Vain and SBN.
As for not believing me, some of the stuff I put in this topic came straight from a book I own. And no its not overgeneralized. I pointed out misperceptions of werewolves such as being evil, and told you that most are not, its a rarity. So the perception that hollywood gives of evil werewolves is slightly false.

And if it seems over generalized I'm sorry. I don't have hours upon hours of time to right down pages of info for people on something so trivial. And heck I threw in some facts on werewolves from different areas like Portugal. I suggest you guys cut down on the rabble rousing and personal attacks there.

You need names to be personally attacking somebody. So far I haven't used names. I suggest that you stop saying something I'm not doing. This isn't the first time you've done this and twisted things around. I'm getting tired of being put in this category. Get over what ever your problem is. And no one is trying to rabble rouse. This is the truth, like it or not.

It's amazing how this fits into that comment. I've found something in a book I saw at Barnes and Noble. It was a mythology book that I came across while researching a couple mystical creatures. There is a legend that originated in Europe, believed to have come from Scandinavia. It deals with a king that became too powerful. One of the Norse gods,who endowed him with powers of nature warned him of what might come of these powers if overused. The king ignored the god and ended up turning into a creature he portrayed in his leadership. The werewolf in him turned vicious and ended up being killed by his son. I can't remember the entire story, but that's how it goes in the plot.
So, the nature of this werewolf isn't evil. In truth, it depends on how well the person wields the power he is granted.. I always thought this to be a more modern idea, but here it is as an old legend. This is one of the few older stories of werewolves where the transformation isn't of an evil nature.
Not to generalize, but to point out I must say that when it come to the culture the nature of such a spirit is defined. The Native American, old European and Asian legends of werecreatures always seem less hostile than those of newer European stories. As strange as it might seem, I find that it might depend on how that nation viewed certain natures. The Japanese and other Asian countries embraced nature, of sexual and other themes, and formed stories of those embraced natures. As for the European, the stories originated during the Greek to the Hellenistic eras were just just as embracive to nature and so the nature of the beast was widely characterized as good AND evil. The stories I have heard that came out during the uprise of catholicism and around the dark ages were mostly depicting werewolves as evil maneaters. So, I don't think it is generalized to say werewolves were evil in Europe. It just happened to conform to the culture at the time.

I haven't heard much about werecreatures in Africa. That, I think is the only one I haven't heard about. Anyone have any stories or legends about werelions or something?

[WLewy]

So, the nature of this werewolf isn't evil. In truth, it depends on how well the person wields the power he is granted.. I always thought this to be a more modern idea, but here it is as an old legend. This is one of the few older stories of werewolves where the transformation isn't of an evil nature.
Not to generalize, but to point out I must say that when it come to the culture the nature of such a spirit is defined. The Native American, old European and Asian legends of werecreatures always seem less hostile than those of newer European stories. As strange as it might seem, I find that it might depend on how that nation viewed certain natures. The Japanese and other Asian countries embraced nature, of sexual and other themes, and formed stories of those embraced natures. As for the European, the stories originated during the Greek to the Hellenistic eras were just just as embracive to nature and so the nature of the beast was widely characterized as good AND evil. The stories I have heard that came out during the uprise of catholicism and around the dark ages were mostly depicting werewolves as evil maneaters. So, I don't think it is generalized to say werewolves were evil in Europe. It just happened to conform to the culture at the time.
You have a point there .Not all werecreatures are evil (...as you said it depends on the person who posses such powers,if the person has a pure heart when he turns into a werecreature than he/she can control himself and wont be evil, but if he/she has a heart filled with anger,sorrow or any kind of evil,then the beasts true nature emerges...) Just as there are legends proving it.(...werecreatures that became heroes , cause saving innocent people...)
I'm not sure if I'm recaling it correctly , but I once read somewhere that :"WE HUMANS FEAR THE BEAST WITHIN THE WOLF,BECAUSE WE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE BEASE WITHIN OURSELVES"

[Night Wolf]

Wtf...ani kind of "were"-thing is fantasy, people >_>
Some are evil, some not, but the general legends on werewolves are that they're the cliche "human turns to monster on full moon and wants human blood". Even here in Brazil there are these legends, even though there are no wolves in Brazil. XD
Debating on the true nature of a myth is not very rational, since in can be altered in any way, it's just a myth >_>

[WLewy]

We are almost in the same condition in our country. Yet its hard to find a reasonable answer to this as they don't exist. But even if they would exist it would be hard for someone putting them to the test and live to tell about it. To bad!!!

O, yeah I almost forgot I , I never new you had pics posted...your pics were right in front of me and haven't noticed that those were your work.(...got to hand it to you , very impressive, must have taken up a lot of hours to finish some...keep up the good work,it's worth it) .
Till next time.:closedgrin:

[neoritter]

You need names to be personally attacking somebody. So far I haven't used names. I suggest that you stop saying something I'm not doing. This isn't the first time you've done this and twisted things around. I'm getting tired of being put in this category. Get over what ever your problem is. And no one is trying to rabble rouse. This is the truth, like it or not.

Did I say you personally did the personal attack? No. I didn't directly mention you. Guilty conscience maybe? And there's no matter of twisting but simple truth. Certain things were said that were unnecessary to say, either being off topic or as I put it rabble rousing or maybe to clarify, just trying to start trouble. The difference between you and Zen (and me) is that you talk about people to other people publicly or what could be construed as talking behind their back. Zen and I direct our comments to the actual person when he/she is there.



It's amazing how this fits into that comment. I've found something in a book I saw at Barnes and Noble. It was a mythology book that I came across while researching a couple mystical creatures. There is a legend that originated in Europe, believed to have come from Scandinavia. It deals with a king that became too powerful. One of the Norse gods,who endowed him with powers of nature warned him of what might come of these powers if overused. The king ignored the god and ended up turning into a creature he portrayed in his leadership. The werewolf in him turned vicious and ended up being killed by his son. I can't remember the entire story, but that's how it goes in the plot.
So, the nature of this werewolf isn't evil. In truth, it depends on how well the person wields the power he is granted.. I always thought this to be a more modern idea, but here it is as an old legend. This is one of the few older stories of werewolves where the transformation isn't of an evil nature.
Not to generalize, but to point out I must say that when it come to the culture the nature of such a spirit is defined. The Native American, old European and Asian legends of werecreatures always seem less hostile than those of newer European stories. As strange as it might seem, I find that it might depend on how that nation viewed certain natures. The Japanese and other Asian countries embraced nature, of sexual and other themes, and formed stories of those embraced natures. As for the European, the stories originated during the Greek to the Hellenistic eras were just just as embracive to nature and so the nature of the beast was widely characterized as good AND evil. The stories I have heard that came out during the uprise of catholicism and around the dark ages were mostly depicting werewolves as evil maneaters. So, I don't think it is generalized to say werewolves were evil in Europe. It just happened to conform to the culture at the time.

I haven't heard much about werecreatures in Africa. That, I think is the only one I haven't heard about. Anyone have any stories or legends about werelions or something?

Actually, as I said before the werewolves even during the middle-ages were not primarily evil. Most attacked those who did them wrong when they were human, or who attacked something out of hunger, etc. Its the famous stories that have scewed (sp?) the image.

And Africa has shapeshifter myths similar to Native Americans. Were-hyenas too. Maybe if you're a good boy or girl I'll post something on the matter. :closedgrin:

[WLewy]

Wtf...ani kind of "were"-thing is fantasy, people >_>
Yeah, I get the picture. I know as well as you that there aren't any "were-".
Now...,my intention is not to "bug" people , but I see you think, as I believe in such creatures.
(... I can only believe in what I see in front of me...).
Besides, if there is someone who believes that such creatures exist in real life,go ahead, I don't care.But I'm interested what legends , myths had formed out of it .
I heard a lot about people being close to the animal or were- that they would like to be (...in a spiritual way...) and I see they keep to it.
Now..., I don't know if I'm over exaggerating , tell if I do so, but I sure get furious when somebody does that.

[Night Wolf]

I don't think there's nothing our of the ordinary to have some kinda fascination for werebeasts and their myths, only when you start believing in them >_>
(or at least I think o.o; )

[SilverBack Novelist]

I've been trying to find stuff about werecreatures from India. I know there are legends, but can't find a good source to draw from. There's a snake hybrid with a human kind of thing, but of course no werecreatures. The Indian mythology is pretty interesting if you read up on it. It is by far one of the more unique that I have come across.
Does anyone know the origin of the Disney's Shaggy Dog? A weredog? I'm sure there's got to be something graphic about that origin. After all, Disney loves watering down stories. I wonder....

[Vain]

Neoritter, I suggest that you stop picking fights with people on this forum. And no one said any names except you. And yes, you did direct these comments to people you named. You got to get over this Zen thing and grow up. You keep brining that subject up and it doesn't belong here. You tend to get stuck on the past, it seems. Seriously, grow up and get over yourself. You're going to get yourself kicked off the forum.

SBN, I'm starting to see what you're saying.

[WLewy]

Uh...
Now this is getting a bit annoying . I know I have no right to speak here , but if they want a fight (...I don't thinks so...) let them have it. But ... hey this can be situation that can be dealt only if everyone tries to chill down a bit. Its not worth barking about it (...every 1 can make a mistake...).
O..., yeah like if someone tries to pick a fight with you through the forum you're going to beat up the PC in front of you...
And don't think I'm protecting someone... cause I'm not. Can we just forget what happened !
Lets get back to the thread .
Thats all.:howl:

[neoritter]

Neoritter, I suggest that you stop picking fights with people on this forum. And no one said any names except you. And yes, you did direct these comments to people you named. You got to get over this Zen thing and grow up. You keep brining that subject up and it doesn't belong here. You tend to get stuck on the past, it seems. Seriously, grow up and get over yourself. You're going to get yourself kicked off the forum.

SBN, I'm starting to see what you're saying.

lol, you're serious right? You think because you don't say the name you haven't directed it at anyone? LOL, "Those two are always a bit over advertised. Most of the stuff I've read from all these guys are so generalized that they don't go into anything new..." That is completely an ad hominim or personal attack. SBN writes: "Those certain people like grilling other people and so it instill fear for that person, creating a false sense of power. It's really sad. Look at a few closed thread. You'll see that it's because people like to cause trouble and harass other members of this forum that this type of thread is often closed." This fringes on it. But again I never said he stated an ad hominim. I don't bring this subject up, you and SBN seem to do it really. I don't pick them, just fight them. And thats really all that needs to be said on this subject back on topic and everything will be nice and dandy.

Anywho, SBN you're thinking of Nagas and those can pass almost for werecreatures in that they are found either in human or snake form, but rarely in a hybrid. But it is really hard to find a book or something dedicated to werecreatures in India. At best you'll find scattered information in a book with a broader range.

[WLewy]

Truly there is little information about were-creatures of India,yet I found a little info(...very little...) I don't know if you heard of it? :The rakshasa or raghosh is a huge creature that can shift into any type of animal that it wants. It is characterized by its large size and its red or blonde hair.
There is little information give on were-creatures related to a country, most of the information is general (...to bad...). I bet ever country has it's own were-creature and not described in a few words.
Still looking...

[confidental]

Woohoo, Lots of Archaeologists and Mythologists here.

btw, I never heard any wolf myths in India. But I do heard about possible wolf attacks in India though. (Uttar Pradesh, If I remember correctly.)

[WLewy]

Now thats a bit odd , cause I don't remember reading about healthy wolves killing or just attacking people especially in India . Never really heard of such attacks (...although they might had happened...). But after a report the majority of wolf attacks is provoked by humans (...if the wolf is healthy and doesn't have some disease ... )

[Vain]

Neoritter, come off it. You're being really stupid. No one is talking about Zen. Stop causing trouble and move on. You're the one who's bent on this problem. Grow up. Just because your buddy isn't in the forum it doesn't mean you have to blame people. At least we were staying on topic. You're taking two seperate conversations and mixing them up. That you post this stuff it's screwing up the environment. Get a grip and get a life.

The thing about India is, there are werewolves in India. I think it just conforms to the culture and what's around to transform into. In Europe, it wolves...India it might be cows. Japan it's foxes.

In the desert in the middle of nowhere its a rock.....:lol:

[Night Wolf]

Now thats a bit odd , cause I don't remember reading about healthy wolves killing or just attacking people especially in India . Never really heard of such attacks (...although they might had happened...). But after a report the majority of wolf attacks is provoked by humans (...if the wolf is healthy and doesn't have some disease ... )

That's true, there are no registers of wolf attacks on any place for no reason o.o
It's always lack of food, wolf territory invasion or diseaseds >_>

[WLewy]

Well there are still hardly any wolves because of hunters who drove them almost to extinction, for what ? (...for fur ?...well, thats not right...).
It would be difficult for a wolf to live in India (...dog maybe...but those all around the world...) cause it's climate (...high temperatures,49 C/120 F...)
But a myth is a myth ,everything is possible.:howl:

[SilverBack Novelist]

Well there are still hardly any wolves because of hunters who drove them almost to extinction, for what ? (...for fur ?...well, thats not right...).
It would be difficult for a wolf to live in India (...dog maybe...but those all around the world...) cause it's climate (...high temperatures,49 C/120 F...)
But a myth is a myth ,everything is possible.:howl:

Surely not for fur. Wolves were thought vicious, just like bears and bobcats. They didn't want wolves around their stock. It's bad for business. Thankfully, their numbers are growing again.
You right about one thing, wolves wouldn't live well in India. It's too hot, first of all. And second, India has other species in the food chain. Tiger anyone? Actually, we really should look at the culture. Wolves would pose a threat to cows, since they're thought sacred over there. And animals like rats are thought good luck. The human factor would have irraticated that animal if it ever existed in that land. Dogs don't populate that area either. That's culture for you, embracing the selected few and screwing the rest. You got to love their story of creation though.

[WLewy]

Not only for fur (...but in the end that was the main purpose...).
You have a point ,that people wanted to protect stock and took drastic measures doing so(...that was to harsh though...),but, humans slaughtered their main food income ,so they had no other way to survive + humans invaded their territories (...they must have been pissed of...thats for sure...).
They are being repopulated in areas where they got extinct.
Uh, plus work for them. (...great job...).:cry:
Yet, stories will remain just stories (...for a while at least...), nothing more. :blink:

[neoritter]

Thats the way they should remain, just stories. Something for the healthy development of mind and release of emotion. We screw ourselves over when we accept fiction for fact.

[WLewy]

To bad that in some communities the story is told in a believable way just to frighten youngsters not to misbehave. So sad .:cry: No wonder they are even afraid to go out in the dark until they 25 years old (...some might still believe, there are quite a few people who don't know what is fiction and fact...).
But people who still believe that the story of little red ridding hod happened despite their old age , should get there brains fixed with a jackhammer . :cry:

[Vain]

You're screwed if you do and you're screwed if you don't. You're screwed staying inside because you're mentally scarred for believing that werewolves are going to get you. And of course, you screwed for going out at night because that just means you're a witch....ah, why can't we just go back to those good old days....

[confidental]

You're screwed if you do and you're screwed if you don't. You're screwed staying inside because you're mentally scarred for believing that werewolves are going to get you. And of course, you screwed for going out at night because that just means you're a witch....ah, why can't we just go back to those good old days....

Ain't that a little bit too violence? Everybody got rights to express their opinion.

[kitetsu]

You're screwed if you do and you're screwed if you don't. You're screwed staying inside because you're mentally scarred for believing that werewolves are going to get you. And of course, you screwed for going out at night because that just means you're a witch....ah, why can't we just go back to those good old days....

I seriously don't plan on getting tortured to half-death just for blurting out something consdered a sacrilege in the days of old.

But it's really up to you if you want to be beheaded just for stealing something petty, like a turnip.

[WLewy]

You're screwed if you do and you're screwed if you don't. You're screwed staying inside because you're mentally scarred for believing that werewolves are going to get you. And of course, you screwed for going out at night because that just means you're a witch....ah, why can't we just go back to those good old days....
I hope you're not aiming that on me!:angry: (... I just heard this info from people who live in isolated communities..., not my experience...)
Man... you got a way in expressing yourself!:lol:

[SilverBack Novelist]

I think Vain has a devil in her.....She's a witch! She's a witch! Burn her!

[Zenislev]

I've been trying to find stuff about werecreatures from India. I know there are legends, but can't find a good source to draw from. There's a snake hybrid with a human kind of thing, but of course no werecreatures. The Indian mythology is pretty interesting if you read up on it. It is by far one of the more unique that I have come across.
Does anyone know the origin of the Disney's Shaggy Dog? A weredog? I'm sure there's got to be something graphic about that origin. After all, Disney loves watering down stories. I wonder....

I'm well aware that this is digging a bit, but I actually have your Indian shapeshifter.

It's called a Rakshasa. It's technically an evil spirit that can change shape to look like a human, but that's about as close as you're going to get (also, where did you say you were reading up on "Indian" mythology? Are you sure you didn't mean Vedic Myth?) It's nails were said to be venomous, and aside from taking a human form, they could really take any form they wanted. It's actually unclear if they have a "natural" state.

[WLewy]

What Lycanthropy and Therianthropy officially related to?:cry:
I'm having a hard time finding a good explication to these terms .
So..., can you help?
I would appreciated it . :panting:

[Zenislev]

What Lycanthropy and Therianthropy officially related to?:cry:
I'm having a hard time finding a good explication to these terms .
So..., can you help?
I would appreciated it . :panting:

Incredibly strange sentence structure and vague subject matter aside, here's the short version (I'm guessing english isn't your first language, which is cool and all, just pointing it out):

First, actual etymology. Lycanthrope literally means "wolf-man" or "wolf human." Real easy to break down. "Lyc-" comes from "Lykos" (wolf), and "anthrope" comes from "anthropos" (man).

Therianthrope simply means "animal-man" (rather than specifying "wolf.") "Therian" comes from "Therion", meaning "Wild animal" or "beast", and "anthrope", we just went over.

Lycanthropy, used now-a-days, refers to a disorder in which the afflicted person believes they turn into some form of animal (usually a wolf) when certain conditions are met/at random. This could easily be deemed a sort of escapist tactic used by someone who just plain can't cope with themselves, or reality as a whole. The term has also been misused in the identification of a rare disease known as hypertrichosis, also known as "werewolf syndrome", in which the subject simply has an abnormally high amount of body hair, usually on the face (every other region of the body is still subject to manifesting symptoms, and no, it's not communicable). If you ask me, they look more like wookies, but whatever.

Moving on:

In mythology, as I'm sure you know by now, lycanthropy is a disease/genetic disorder/magical curse/etc, etc that causes the afflicted person to transform, in whole or in part, into some form of animal. It's often times used as a metaphor for how a person is viewed after committing certain actions (adultery makes you a "beast", acting like an animal and drinking from dirtied sources of water makes you an animal, blah, blah, blah), or to illustrate the mind/body split that exists in just about every western society out there. The "wolf", or other animal, is usually a representation of every repressed primal instinct present in every animal on the face of the planet (the "body"), and the character themselves represents rational thought, human emotions, and all that noise (the "mind").


Now, how do Lycanthropy and Therianthropy cross? Well, that's easy: Internet retards.

Before getting into that, I'll explain what Therianthropy is, avoiding all of what I like to call the "Smoke and Mirrors bullshit" that goes along with it. You'll find no talk of "souls" on this end.


Therianthropy could best be viewed as a sort of species dysphoria, in which the self-image that the brain has crafted for it's ego matches up with a specific animal, rather than the person the subject sees in the mirror. Through simple association, the person then begins to adopt many of the more specialized behaviors of the image (say, a strict pack-system in a Therianthrope that identifies with wolves, assigning an alpha, and what-not), as well as incorporating the basic animal instincts within their own psyche into this crafted persona. This fills in the gaps between the person, and the image they hold of themselves (doesn't have to be an actual image).

The other half of Therianthropy worth exploring is what differentiates them from those god-awful fucking furries. Aside from avoiding pushing their beliefs about themselves on others, it's not a fandom. It's not something they've chosen. It's not really even a consciously constructed persona. You won't find near-obsessive fixation with honest Therianthropes when speaking of which animal they identify with.


Anyway, back to the point: Internet retards often times link the two ideas (lycanthropy and therianthropy) together, because they like to feel special. By calling themselves Lycanthropes, or "Lycans" (fuck you, Underworld), they feel they've taken one step toward being an actual were-creature. Some will even claim that their animal nature, or "Theriotype" will take control of them from time to time. This is not only false, but annoying and stupid. If they find themselves lashing out, it's because of anger issues already present, not because of "the beast within." If they find that they engage in odd behaviors, it's usually because they're crying out for attention. If they find that they have "uncontrollable cravings" for meat, blood, whatever, they're full of shit. Be sure to tell them that. Because they are full of shit.

The fact of the matter is that if you talk to a Therianthrope who's actually got some kind of first hand experience with the matter, they won't make any grand proclamations of how special they are, nor will they chatter on and on and on about how society doesn't accept them, nor will you ever hear them call themselves werecreatures. That's because those folks know that physically, they are human. That's all they are now, and all they ever will be. And though they may feel inhuman, they recognize that it's just a feeling.

[Wan]

*bows* Me, being personally a Therianthrope, couldn't have explained it better.

[kitetsu]

Insightful, Zen.

I'd like to know, however... What do you think is the proper technical and general name for werefolk that's not a werewolf, other than the word "polyanthrope", and "[insert specific animal scientific name]anthrope"?

[WLewy]

Incredibly strange sentence structure and vague subject matter aside, here's the short version (I'm guessing english isn't your first language, which is cool and all, just pointing it out):

First, actual etymology. Lycanthrope literally means "wolf-man" or "wolf human." Real easy to break down. "Lyc-" comes from "Lykos" (wolf), and "anthrope" comes from "anthropos" (man).

Therianthrope simply means "animal-man" (rather than specifying "wolf.") "Therian" comes from "Therion", meaning "Wild animal" or "beast", and "anthrope", we just went over.

Lycanthropy, used now-a-days, refers to a disorder in which the afflicted person believes they turn into some form of animal (usually a wolf) when certain conditions are met/at random. This could easily be deemed a sort of escapist tactic used by someone who just plain can't cope with themselves, or reality as a whole. The term has also been misused in the identification of a rare disease known as hypertrichosis, also known as "werewolf syndrome", in which the subject simply has an abnormally high amount of body hair, usually on the face (every other region of the body is still subject to manifesting symptoms, and no, it's not communicable). If you ask me, they look more like wookies, but whatever.

Moving on:

In mythology, as I'm sure you know by now, lycanthropy is a disease/genetic disorder/magical curse/etc, etc that causes the afflicted person to transform, in whole or in part, into some form of animal. It's often times used as a metaphor for how a person is viewed after committing certain actions (adultery makes you a "beast", acting like an animal and drinking from dirtied sources of water makes you an animal, blah, blah, blah), or to illustrate the mind/body split that exists in just about every western society out there. The "wolf", or other animal, is usually a representation of every repressed primal instinct present in every animal on the face of the planet (the "body"), and the character themselves represents rational thought, human emotions, and all that noise (the "mind").


Now, how do Lycanthropy and Therianthropy cross? Well, that's easy: Internet retards.

Before getting into that, I'll explain what Therianthropy is, avoiding all of what I like to call the "Smoke and Mirrors bullshit" that goes along with it. You'll find no talk of "souls" on this end.


Therianthropy could best be viewed as a sort of species dysphoria, in which the self-image that the brain has crafted for it's ego matches up with a specific animal, rather than the person the subject sees in the mirror. Through simple association, the person then begins to adopt many of the more specialized behaviors of the image (say, a strict pack-system in a Therianthrope that identifies with wolves, assigning an alpha, and what-not), as well as incorporating the basic animal instincts within their own psyche into this crafted persona. This fills in the gaps between the person, and the image they hold of themselves (doesn't have to be an actual image).

The other half of Therianthropy worth exploring is what differentiates them from those god-awful fucking furries. Aside from avoiding pushing their beliefs about themselves on others, it's not a fandom. It's not something they've chosen. It's not really even a consciously constructed persona. You won't find near-obsessive fixation with honest Therianthropes when speaking of which animal they identify with.


Anyway, back to the point: Internet retards often times link the two ideas (lycanthropy and therianthropy) together, because they like to feel special. By calling themselves Lycanthropes, or "Lycans" (fuck you, Underworld), they feel they've taken one step toward being an actual were-creature. Some will even claim that their animal nature, or "Theriotype" will take control of them from time to time. This is not only false, but annoying and stupid. If they find themselves lashing out, it's because of anger issues already present, not because of "the beast within." If they find that they engage in odd behaviors, it's usually because they're crying out for attention. If they find that they have "uncontrollable cravings" for meat, blood, whatever, they're full of shit. Be sure to tell them that. Because they are full of shit.

The fact of the matter is that if you talk to a Therianthrope who's actually got some kind of first hand experience with the matter, they won't make any grand proclamations of how special they are, nor will they chatter on and on and on about how society doesn't accept them, nor will you ever hear them call themselves werecreatures. That's because those folks know that physically, they are human. That's all they are now, and all they ever will be. And though they may feel inhuman, they recognize that it's just a feeling.

Thanks Zen!
You really explained it to me (...from top to bottom...).
Oh... , another thing ,you're right ,English isn't my first language.
Appreciate your help!:howl:

[Zenislev]

Insightful, Zen.

I'd like to know, however... What do you think is the proper technical and general name for werefolk that's not a werewolf, other than the word "polyanthrope", and "[insert specific animal scientific name]anthrope"?

Honestly, if you've ever played the Bloody Roar games, they have a decent technical term for them, that being Zooanthropes, or Zoanthropes, depending on the localization.

Side note: Diggin' the avatar.



Thanks Zen!
You really explained it to me (...from top to bottom...).
Oh... , another thing ,you're right ,English isn't my first language.
Appreciate your help!:howl:

No trouble. Despite what naysayers say when they do indeed say "nay", I know exactly what it is I'm talking about. Any other questions are certainly welcome.

[confidental]

Honestly, if you've ever played the Bloody Roar games, they have a decent technical term for them, that being Zooanthropes, or Zoanthropes, depending on the localization.


Zoanthropes, never heard that until I saw and heard Type O Negative's song in October Rust album.
What does it exactly mean?

[WLewy]

No trouble. Despite what naysayers say when they do indeed say "nay", I know exactly what it is I'm talking about. Any other questions are certainly welcome.
Thanks...,appreciate your help!:howl:

[Night Wolf]

Incredibly strange sentence structure and vague subject matter aside, here's the short version (I'm guessing english isn't your first language, which is cool and all, just pointing it out):

First, actual etymology. Lycanthrope literally means "wolf-man" or "wolf human." Real easy to break down. "Lyc-" comes from "Lykos" (wolf), and "anthrope" comes from "anthropos" (man).

Therianthrope simply means "animal-man" (rather than specifying "wolf.") "Therian" comes from "Therion", meaning "Wild animal" or "beast", and "anthrope", we just went over.

Lycanthropy, used now-a-days, refers to a disorder in which the afflicted person believes they turn into some form of animal (usually a wolf) when certain conditions are met/at random. This could easily be deemed a sort of escapist tactic used by someone who just plain can't cope with themselves, or reality as a whole. The term has also been misused in the identification of a rare disease known as hypertrichosis, also known as "werewolf syndrome", in which the subject simply has an abnormally high amount of body hair, usually on the face (every other region of the body is still subject to manifesting symptoms, and no, it's not communicable). If you ask me, they look more like wookies, but whatever.

Moving on:

In mythology, as I'm sure you know by now, lycanthropy is a disease/genetic disorder/magical curse/etc, etc that causes the afflicted person to transform, in whole or in part, into some form of animal. It's often times used as a metaphor for how a person is viewed after committing certain actions (adultery makes you a "beast", acting like an animal and drinking from dirtied sources of water makes you an animal, blah, blah, blah), or to illustrate the mind/body split that exists in just about every western society out there. The "wolf", or other animal, is usually a representation of every repressed primal instinct present in every animal on the face of the planet (the "body"), and the character themselves represents rational thought, human emotions, and all that noise (the "mind").


Now, how do Lycanthropy and Therianthropy cross? Well, that's easy: Internet retards.

Before getting into that, I'll explain what Therianthropy is, avoiding all of what I like to call the "Smoke and Mirrors bullshit" that goes along with it. You'll find no talk of "souls" on this end.


Therianthropy could best be viewed as a sort of species dysphoria, in which the self-image that the brain has crafted for it's ego matches up with a specific animal, rather than the person the subject sees in the mirror. Through simple association, the person then begins to adopt many of the more specialized behaviors of the image (say, a strict pack-system in a Therianthrope that identifies with wolves, assigning an alpha, and what-not), as well as incorporating the basic animal instincts within their own psyche into this crafted persona. This fills in the gaps between the person, and the image they hold of themselves (doesn't have to be an actual image).

The other half of Therianthropy worth exploring is what differentiates them from those god-awful fucking furries. Aside from avoiding pushing their beliefs about themselves on others, it's not a fandom. It's not something they've chosen. It's not really even a consciously constructed persona. You won't find near-obsessive fixation with honest Therianthropes when speaking of which animal they identify with.


Anyway, back to the point: Internet retards often times link the two ideas (lycanthropy and therianthropy) together, because they like to feel special. By calling themselves Lycanthropes, or "Lycans" (fuck you, Underworld), they feel they've taken one step toward being an actual were-creature. Some will even claim that their animal nature, or "Theriotype" will take control of them from time to time. This is not only false, but annoying and stupid. If they find themselves lashing out, it's because of anger issues already present, not because of "the beast within." If they find that they engage in odd behaviors, it's usually because they're crying out for attention. If they find that they have "uncontrollable cravings" for meat, blood, whatever, they're full of shit. Be sure to tell them that. Because they are full of shit.

The fact of the matter is that if you talk to a Therianthrope who's actually got some kind of first hand experience with the matter, they won't make any grand proclamations of how special they are, nor will they chatter on and on and on about how society doesn't accept them, nor will you ever hear them call themselves werecreatures. That's because those folks know that physically, they are human. That's all they are now, and all they ever will be. And though they may feel inhuman, they recognize that it's just a feeling.
o_o...
*saves to harddisk* :panting:

[Indiana_Jones]

Well, NOT everyone is "normal." We all know that. We can just leave them be, even though it gets serious.

You can't judge some people for what they are, but if you do. You will be fucked or either the person will change. Because you can't change. Changing your personality and mind is hard.

Zen is not your ordinary smart-mouthed person. He's good, really good. Let's say we are leaving in a 'fantasy reality.' Because you people are maybe just to ignorant to know what this world really is! Humans are yet interesting creatures, even so young and *censored.*

[Vain]

So.......that means Batman actually thinks he's a werebat.....Well, if it helps you fight crime go for it. I just wish he wouldn't parade around in tights. Men shouldn't wear tights. I'm sorry, but after seeing Cats the play I'm not very intrigued in the crotch bitting singlets. Mr. West, bats are nocturnal. Please don't go out in the day light....

[WLewy]

Well Vain...
Got to handed to you ... you have a point there , about Batman!
You are right!:closedgrin:

[Zenislev]

So.......that means Batman actually thinks he's a werebat.....Well, if it helps you fight crime go for it. I just wish he wouldn't parade around in tights. Men shouldn't wear tights. I'm sorry, but after seeing Cats the play I'm not very intrigued in the crotch bitting singlets. Mr. West, bats are nocturnal. Please don't go out in the day light....

That's...totally not what was said. Batman adopted the symbol of the Bat to personify people's fear of the dark. Batman's chief weapon was psychological warfare, hence why the writers gave him an arch-nemesis that was constantly manic, and unable to be scared (the joker.)


Well Vain...
Got to handed to you ... you have a point there , about Batman!
You are right!:closedgrin:

Jigga-what?

[neoritter]

That's...totally not what was said. Batman adopted the symbol of the Bat to personify people's fear of the dark. Batman's chief weapon was psychological warfare, hence why the writers gave him an arch-nemesis that was constantly manic, and unable to be scared (the joker.)

Well the joker does get scared. Its just he kinda views the whole thing with batman as a game. The times when Batman gets really close to killing the guy, the Joker kinda wakes up for a moment and realizes its not a game. But you know I never really thought too much about the situation between the Joker and Batman. I just don't really read comics too much.

[WLewy]

Now I don't want to interrupt , but what does Batman has to do with Werewolves?
Can't we just go back to the topic!
Please:closedgrin:

[Were Dono]

Now I don't want to interrupt , but what does Batman has to do with Werewolves?
Can't we just go back to the topic!
Please:closedgrin:


Because in the mythology, there's more than just "Werewolves"
There are werebeasts.

That means that "Therians" will have more than just a wolf.

Ritter was saying that Batman could be a Therian, or just plain weird and through he was actually a Werebat.

[neoritter]

Because in the mythology, there's more than just "Werewolves"
There are werebeasts.

That means that "Therians" will have more than just a wolf.

Ritter was saying that Batman could be a Therian, or just plain weird and through he was actually a Werebat.

What was I saying?

I believe you might mean Vain?

[confidental]

:eyeroll:

Oh yeah, I was wondering for quite a while already. Does werewolves/lycanthropy has to always associates with magic/occult/witchcraft?

[WLewy]

In most of the cases, yes, it was associated with magic/occult/witchcraft, but mostly in the medieval times.
Nowadays there is reasonable explanation for everything.
I'm sure you know that nowadays the term: lycanthropy and werewolf is heard mostly in movies. While as in reality it is considered as a mental disease (....as far as I know....).
They were associated with such terms cause there was no other explanation at the time being (... a lot of people died just because they were thought to be strange...)
Werewolves/Lycanthropy is associated mostly through legends,myths,folks.
In reality they separated .( ....Although I might be mistaking in some points ,so correct me...) :closedgrin:

[Were Dono]

Err...Right.
Sorry, Ritter.

Probably wasn't paying attention much.

[Night Wolf]

In reality they separated .( ....Although I might be mistaking in some points ,so correct me...) :closedgrin:
Not on the net world...it's so common to see weirdos going "OMGZ IMZ A LICANTROPZ!!!11"
A recent poll on another forum I visit was "Do you known what is Lycantropy?"
80% voted "werewolves, from myths or reality "(?)
5% voted " a disease that makes the patient think he's a werebeast, often a wolf"
._.

[neoritter]

well thats technically right
The mental illness was named after the myth...err based on it.

[WLewy]

Yes..., I noticed that too...:cry:
On a lot of sites they put the meanings" under 1 hat" (...you have to figure it out which 1 is the best definition...)
Well...There are sites where they give both of their meanings and explain which one is used in different fields(...science,folk...),but most of them give only one definition most of them what their meaning is in folk,legend,myth.:howl:

[neoritter]

well think of it this way, some words have multiple definitions. You need context clues to figure out which definition the person is using.
So saying, "The doctor diagnosed the patient with lycanthropy." Pretty much tells you that they mean the mental illness.

[confidental]

I thought they had a specific definition for this mental illness.... "Clinical Lycanthropy" If I remember correctly.

[neoritter]

Well ya, but its still lycanthropy, clinical is being input as a context clue so to speak.

[WLewy]

Clinical Lycanthropy! Hmmm...
Never heard of it! Probably because I don't have lycanthropy (...clinical meaning....)
Although it would be better if the meanings were separated , it can be a bit confusing for some, or at least added a word to specify it's meaning.(...why don't the scientists give the illness a proper name...).:cry:

[SilverBack Novelist]

Don't forget physical inflictions. There is a condition that results in a person growing excessive amounts of hair all over their body. Those who would know little about this medical condition would have said that the person was a wolfman. As we know, a sheltered life and fear of the unknown breeds ignorance.

http://brasil.calvizie.net/documento.asp?args=32.1.571

There are no known treatments for it. If one is to conform that person would have to undergo a dermatological electrolysis treatment to get rid of all the hair. Back in the day, one might have had to shave continuously.
...It sure does bring a new meaning to the 5 o'clock shadow, I guess.:blink:

[confidental]

Aha...Hypertrichosis....I heard about it before.

[WLewy]

Shaving...
Hm...
It a was better idea if they went to the circus and not to a dermatologist(... not if in that time there would have been a lot of dermatologists...).:lol:
At least in that way they were a bit more accepted .:closedgrin:

[SilverBack Novelist]

Drunken sailors said manatees were mermaids. Drunken land-lovers sees a hairy guy and shouts, "Wolf!"

[WLewy]

You have a point there:closedgrin:

[TheWolfMoon]

What i have read up on and what i know if there WAS such a thing as a shapeshifting man(or woman) werewolf whatever you call it.I think the only way to BE a werewolf is to be BORN as one or to have DNA joining like sex or makeing out or hell evan shareing a soda but as werewolfs go or how it started i think a long time ago a man "Thought" he seen a man shifting or a big wolf that was eating a cow or something....mabe men where traveling telling stories and he thought he would have a bit of fun with the guys...what ever the case is i don't know hell you never know there mabe a lost city of Werewolves its just not likely....

[WLewy]

Thats one explanation...:closedgrin:
But maybe we will never know for sure...until...:closedgrin:

[SilverBack Novelist]

Hmmm...That's an idea. It's kind of like those horse riders. You don't ever see them in the public eye. They must have their own little world underneath the race track. "The Land of the Jockey!" :lol:

It this this this idea fits with the mole people than werewolves. After cultivation, human influences on nature, there is few areas in the world where they can inhabit. In that sad realization, we can only take the image of the werewolf and place it tales to move the listener. Werewolves exist in novels, bad movies and the occasional 'odd art' for those who are into that sort of thing. It's still a great theme, not the most originally played out fantasy or the most popular, but it has an element that can play into the old enchantment as well as the multi fashioned modern retelling of the myth.
I don't need to tell anyone what a werewolf represents. For some, it is the privative, animalistic savage of repressed urges that can come out in humanity. It can also represent the misunderstood, prejudged form that has a softer nature in truth.
Personally, I prefer the fluffy werewolf over a green half naked man.

[Zenislev]

What i have read up on and what i know if there WAS such a thing as a shapeshifting man(or woman) werewolf whatever you call it.I think the only way to BE a werewolf is to be BORN as one or to have DNA joining like sex or makeing out or hell evan shareing a soda but as werewolfs go or how it started i think a long time ago a man "Thought" he seen a man shifting or a big wolf that was eating a cow or something....mabe men where traveling telling stories and he thought he would have a bit of fun with the guys...what ever the case is i don't know hell you never know there mabe a lost city of Werewolves its just not likely....

Plain and simple: No.

You need more than a genetic quirk. You need a way to build the necessary bone, muscle, hair, and tendons that you'd need in order for that organism to function. Anything else is science-fiction. Also, gene-swapping doesn't work like that. You can't integrate someone else's DNA into your own code simply by sharing a soda or "making out." I'm sure they've taught you the way it works in school.

As for how it started: According to mythos, it started as a punishment. Lycaon, king of Arcadia, served Zeus a dish made of human flesh (some accounts say it was one of Zeus' sons, others say it was one of Lycaon's sons, as he was said to have fifty.) This pissed Zeus off, and he killed Lycaon's family, then turned the king himself into a wolf. That's how it started.

There is no secret city of werewolves, as the werewolf itself defies simple physics. You can't get something from nothing. See the first paragraph for the things you would need to build. Those take certain materials. Materials that, if removed in the necessary quantities from the rest of your body, would cause you to cease functioning (read: die). There's also no way for you to store said materials in the right quantities, as your blood would become septic, and again, you would die.

I've been over this with the people of this board about a billion times. I've actually been over this with you several times in the past. If you feel like discussing it as a matter of faith, be my guest. Don't try to explain it, though. The only viable explanation is "straight-fucking-magic." And, as we can all attest to: That doesn't work either. Don't believe me? Pick up a copy of the Ars Goetia. Try some of the stuff in there out. Nothing will happen. One of the most renowned magic grimoires ever, and it does nothing. Take that, arguers of the impossible!



Thats one explanation...:closedgrin:
But maybe we will never know for sure...until...:closedgrin:

We already know. See above.


Hmmm...That's an idea. It's kind of like those horse riders. You don't ever see them in the public eye. They must have their own little world underneath the race track. "The Land of the Jockey!" :lol:

It this this this idea fits with the mole people than werewolves. After cultivation, human influences on nature, there is few areas in the world where they can inhabit. In that sad realization, we can only take the image of the werewolf and place it tales to move the listener. Werewolves exist in novels, bad movies and the occasional 'odd art' for those who are into that sort of thing. It's still a great theme, not the most originally played out fantasy or the most popular, but it has an element that can play into the old enchantment as well as the multi fashioned modern retelling of the myth.
I don't need to tell anyone what a werewolf represents. For some, it is the privative, animalistic savage of repressed urges that can come out in humanity. It can also represent the misunderstood, prejudged form that has a softer nature in truth.
Personally, I prefer the fluffy werewolf over a green half naked man.

This entire post has nothing to do with anything, and bears only a vague mention of the topic at hand. I can't even figure out what the first sentence is supposed to mean, Mr. Novelist. "It this this this"?

I mean, seriously, this was supposed to be a discussion/listing of werecreature mythos. Nowhere in that description does it say "Some dude's stilted re-hashing of what everyone and their mothers already knows."

Also, given that werecritters of all sorts are supposed to be human for a good portion of their lives, I think they'd be pretty apt to survive just fine in a world dominated by humans. Barring the obvious impossibility of such a creature's existence (That having nothing to do with the environment, and more to do with basic physics. By the way, where did you go to college again? I think I asked that before, and you never answered.), why, pray tell, would the creature in question not simply buy it's food just like everyone else? Short answer: There is no reason. That's what it would do.

In the future, before posting: Honestly ask yourself if you're contributing anything. If you're just re-stating what's already been covered in the same thread, don't post. Pretty easy stuff, cuts down on clutter, and you and I won't speak as often. I think we all win in that respect, don't you?

[WLewy]

Hm...
I wonder if it will be possible to change someone into a werewolf (physically) by manipulating the DNA with nano robots...( though on second thought maybe not)...Yet lets hear what do you guys have in mind...:howl:

[neoritter]

Hm...
I wonder if it will be possible to change someone into a werewolf (physically) by manipulating the DNA with nano robots...( though on second thought maybe not)...Yet lets hear what do you guys have in mind...:howl:

That again is another topic, I think we have one called "werewolves-science" if your interested. We're not discussing any new age mumbo jumbo ways of making them. Gimme some time and I will hunt down a story or two from old folklore for you guys.

[WLewy]

Sorry for bringing up another already existing topic.
Thanks for informing me...:closedgrin:

[SilverBack Novelist]

Just to answer Zen, I was making a response to other people's posts and making a joke, you know thing you laugh at, hence the :lol: icon. Besides, I wasn't the only one off topic and I was trying to push it back on track.
That's also my opinion on the werewolf world-> stories and pictures. It has a lot to do on the myths, as an interpretation. If your interpretation is as much along those lines then kudos! Get the confetti.

I found another piece that we can add to this discussion. I found this out when I was renting movies. The clerk was talking about horror films and made mention that the vampire can be the product of a werewolf. That is to say that a werewolf would and could eventually turn into a vampire. I talked to him and we had this discussion about a couple movies. Dracula was one of them. I wasn't a real fan of this, but it is a mythological element that derived from the book. Werewolves in that book were referred to as "creatures of the night." Dracula was the prince of the night in reference. It was supported by readers and some books following that werewolves were the underlings of vampires. The most known of ideas is that the vampires held power over the werewolves. But, in a new realization there werewolves can become vampires.
I didn't see the relationship between bats and wolves. Honestly, I didn't, with the exception of the fact that they are both mammals. When I brought this up with the Blockbuster clerk he simply shrugged and said he read it on the internet, "at some site."

So, if there is anyone that finds this "site" please post a link. So far, I'm not a fan of this myth. I've read the book and it was merely suggestive of that. What ever the case is, it certainly bloomed into this myth, especially in that ever awful Underworld movie.

Also, if you want to add a 'mumbo jumbo theory', as Neorutter puts it, you can also put it in the crackpot theories thread. That's right. We have a crackpot theories thread. It's in the General Howl section.

[Vain]

I've heard this myth theory before. And even worse, it applies to Van Hellsing. I know how much you guys love that movie. Van Hellsing.....Van Hellsing.

[Zenislev]

Just to answer Zen, I was making a response to other people's posts and making a joke, you know thing you laugh at, hence the :lol: icon. Besides, I wasn't the only one off topic and I was trying to push it back on track.

That'd be valid if the statements I addressed didn't come after you inserted that icon.



That's also my opinion on the werewolf world-> stories and pictures. It has a lot to do on the myths, as an interpretation. If your interpretation is as much along those lines then kudos! Get the confetti.

You don't actually understand that you're not saying anything of any value, do you? Everyone knows what werewolves represent in literature. You are re-hashing shit that's been covered a hundred different ways. Not only on this forum, but outside of it. So much so, that anyone who's seen any sort of movie centered around werewolves can tell you exactly what they represent. Here's some examples from this site:

1. Seventh post. (http://www.alphaluna.net/VB/showthread.php?t=37&highlight=Werewolf&#37;2C+represents)

2. Third post. (http://www.alphaluna.net/VB/showthread.php?t=720&highlight=Werewolf%2C+represents)

3. Sixteenth post here. (http://www.alphaluna.net/VB/showthread.php?t=1&page=3&highlight=Werewolf%2C+represents)

It's not about me and you, I'm saying that you're doing nothing but spouting shitty reproductions of what's already been said. It's not necessary, and for someone who's so "progressive","innovative" and "original", it just looks bad. You don't need to keep re-announcing what's been announced, and the "IT'S JUST MY OPINION" bit doesn't work here. That statement being your opinion is totally irrelevant. What's being said to you is this: It's been said, you're not contributing anything but clutter, you can stop now.




I found another piece that we can add to this discussion. I found this out when I was renting movies. The clerk was talking about horror films and made mention that the vampire can be the product of a werewolf. That is to say that a werewolf would and could eventually turn into a vampire. I talked to him and we had this discussion about a couple movies. Dracula was one of them. I wasn't a real fan of this, but it is a mythological element that derived from the book. Werewolves in that book were referred to as "creatures of the night." Dracula was the prince of the night in reference. It was supported by readers and some books following that werewolves were the underlings of vampires. The most known of ideas is that the vampires held power over the werewolves. But, in a new realization there werewolves can become vampires.

No. That's just people mixing mythos. Vampires, for quite some time, were said to be able to alter their form into a few things, the most prevalent of those being mist, bats, and wolves. This was largely regional, and again, nothing but a cautionary measure to keep people from doing stupid shit. Bats and wolves carry disease. You shouldn't inhale cloudy substances that you're not sure of. So on, so forth.

As for Dracula, we all know that Vlad III had himself a ton of conflicting stories circling him. Yes, he was supposed to have kept a host of werewolves as guardians, but really? He just had some guard-dogs like every other nobleman. That myth started around the same time the Romanians claimed he was their messiah, then that he was undead, and then the messiah again. They're actually still waiting for him to return.

In short: Vampires have long been said to have the ability to become wolves. But, a werewolf is not a vampire, and will never be one. In truth: Because they're just different myths. Speaking mythologically: A werewolf bitten by a vampire dies, and vice-versa. This came from the big "OH MY GAWD, WULFZ VS BATZ!" deal that gets harped on pretty regularly. This actually dates back to a man known only as Thiess, who testified, under oath, that he and other "werewolves" were "hounds of god." This whole bit happened in 1692, in Jurenberg Livonia. Just as a side note, motherfucker got sentenced to ten lashes for Idolatry (I know you don't know what that is, so here's what it means: worshiping some physical object as (a) god.) and superstition.

If only we could still do that last bit...

[SilverBack Novelist]

That'd be valid if the statements I addressed didn't come after you inserted that icon.



Uhhh........No. It didn't happen that way. I never made an edit in that post, if you've noticed.

As for Vain, don't even joke about that. Van Hellsing is a terrible movie. Don't. Please don't.

[Zenislev]

Uhhh........No. It didn't happen that way. I never made an edit in that post, if you've noticed.

As for Vain, don't even joke about that. Van Hellsing is a terrible movie. Don't. Please don't.

Sweet...mother of christ, it's like talking to a five-year-old...

Scroll up. The statements that I addressed were these:



It this this this idea fits with the mole people than werewolves. After cultivation, human influences on nature, there is few areas in the world where they can inhabit. In that sad realization, we can only take the image of the werewolf and place it tales to move the listener. Werewolves exist in novels, bad movies and the occasional 'odd art' for those who are into that sort of thing. It's still a great theme, not the most originally played out fantasy or the most popular, but it has an element that can play into the old enchantment as well as the multi fashioned modern retelling of the myth.
I don't need to tell anyone what a werewolf represents. For some, it is the privative, animalistic savage of repressed urges that can come out in humanity. It can also represent the misunderstood, prejudged form that has a softer nature in truth.
Personally, I prefer the fluffy werewolf over a green half naked man.


That block of text was below this:



Hmmm...That's an idea. It's kind of like those horse riders. You don't ever see them in the public eye. They must have their own little world underneath the race track. "The Land of the Jockey! :lol:

Put together, they look like this:



Hmmm...That's an idea. It's kind of like those horse riders. You don't ever see them in the public eye. They must have their own little world underneath the race track. "The Land of the Jockey!" :lol:

It this this this idea fits with the mole people than werewolves. After cultivation, human influences on nature, there is few areas in the world where they can inhabit. In that sad realization, we can only take the image of the werewolf and place it tales to move the listener. Werewolves exist in novels, bad movies and the occasional 'odd art' for those who are into that sort of thing. It's still a great theme, not the most originally played out fantasy or the most popular, but it has an element that can play into the old enchantment as well as the multi fashioned modern retelling of the myth.
I don't need to tell anyone what a werewolf represents. For some, it is the privative, animalistic savage of repressed urges that can come out in humanity. It can also represent the misunderstood, prejudged form that has a softer nature in truth.
Personally, I prefer the fluffy werewolf over a green half naked man.


Do you see how the block of text I actually addressed comes after the "laughing" icon? Do you see how the joke ends where you've inserted the laughing icon? Are you seriously so caught up in yourself that you're going to argue that you didn't place a block of text after a joke when you very clearly did?

Finally: Are you going to contribute anything, or just continue to clutter?

[WLewy]

As for Dracula, we all know that Vlad III had himself a ton of conflicting stories circling him. Yes, he was supposed to have kept a host of werewolves as guardians, but really? He just had some guard-dogs like every other nobleman. That myth started around the same time the Romanians claimed he was their messiah, then that he was undead, and then the messiah again. They're actually still waiting for him to return.


Still waiting for him to return!!!:lol:
Ya right...Maybe in villages where there isn't electricity and people have no education...:lol: How stupid can people get...:eyebrow:
Well...Vlad was mostly known for his cruelty...(mostly torturing people)...
About his name...while the people of Wallachia did give Vlad II the surname Dracu (Dracul being the more grammatically correct form), any connection with a dark power was most likely coincidental. His son Vlad III would later use in several documents the surname Drăculea. Through various translations (Draculea, Drakulya) Vlad III eventually came to be known as Dracula.

[SilverBack Novelist]

Don't forget cannibalism. It was said that Vald was prone to cannibalism.:panting:


As for Zen. You're rambling and cluttering. Come off it for Christ Sake and grow up. You're right about one thing. This isn't about you and me. So stop aiming the monkey shit. Everyone can tell when I am joking, but you are making it harder for this thread to continue. I hope that you will be the better man and just move on after this post and not mention it any further. Please.

[Vain]

Seriously, it's not worth it having someone being kicked off for. It's just going to lead to that if this doesn't stop. Zen, I'm sorry but I'm with Mr. Novelist on this one. Everyone knows that he's joking even after the wolf icon, hence the joke about a werewolf and the hulk phrase.
I see the monkey shit in hand and it's ready to fly. I suggest that people wash their hands and move along. Furthermore, SBN contributes a lot in this forum. I suggest that you get acquainted with all his side rather than the short preconceived notion that you're dwindling on.
Stop ruining it for everyone!

Analyze all you want. Just stop attacking people or I WILL contact the forum leaders immediately. If there is any sign of mud or anything flying through the air I will see it and there will be retribution.

[kitetsu]

Like he'd care about that...

We lose him, we lose a good source of information. Then i'd eventually complain in eljay about how the werefandom doesn't have much genuinely insightful people.

[Indiana_Jones]

Is Science is getting out of the hand in the way that humans used it? Definitely!

Science encompasses the study of nature and its laws. Physical reality as we know it is built upon certain rules and structures separate from our own chosen perspectives. These can be codified in via mathematics or visualized geometrically. By understanding science, mankind changes his relationship with nature. Some use knowledge of natural laws to more effectively place their personal will over the forces of nature, while others use this knowledge to better harmonize their personal will with nature. The latter brings balance and bounty, while the first brings imbalance and diminishing resources. The world today runs on a power base that relies upon imbalance and diminishing resources to sustain itself as the sole providers of these resources. Technologies that advance individual freedom by connecting man directly with nature instead of through the church of scientism and industry are heavily suppressed or corrupted. Thus, technology – while not substituting for spiritual evolution – does represent an important factor in catalyzing spiritual evolution if it helps free one from material limitations and preoccupations.

Science and mathematics as taught in our public educational institutions have been dumbed down and rigged to prevent exploration into sensitive areas. This is done through tricks of logic that play upon the intellect’s many vulnerabilities, namely the inability to differentiate absolute from relative values. Certain concepts and variables are discarded on the basis of irrelevance or arbitrariness, when in actuality they are far from aribtrary and instead provide the doorway to secret sciences. Subjects are frequently taught in compartmentalized and overly abstract ways to prevent students from understanding subjects on a gnostic level, meaning on a geometric and intuitive foundation. The latter is necessary to allow true progressive and creative use of knowledge, but what is encouraged instead is applying formulas and definitions in mechanical ways, resulting in refinement rather than evolution of knowledge.

At the highest levels of truth, there is no difference between technology, occultism, and metaphysics – for all are part of a whole and the grand truth in one thus contains the grand truth in the other. Rules and structure still exist outside physicality, and these can be included in science with provisions made for freewill choice. A complete science would place astral planes, parallel dimensions, synchronicities, consciousness, etheric fields, telepathy, vital energies, emotional energies, volition, hyperdimensional existence and timeloops all under the same framework. At present, these appear to be phenomena distinct from science, but that is because science as we know it is incomplete. It is not that these phenomena can be explained in terms of present science as reductionists and debunkers enjoy doing, but rather that present science must expand to accomodate these phenomena in terms of higher physical and metaphysical principles.

[Were Dono]

Analyze all you want. Just stop attacking people or I WILL contact the forum leaders immediately. If there is any sign of mud or anything flying through the air I will see it and there will be retribution.

o_O You HONESTLY think he gives a damn if he gets banned?
Like...seriously?
Well, I have news for ya.
He doesn't...like...at all.

I mean, if he did at all, don't you think he would have stopped doing what he does?
He's not going to change. End of story.
I thought you people would have figured this out a long, long time ago.


Like he'd care about that...

We lose him, we lose a good source of information. Then i'd eventually complain in eljay about how the werefandom doesn't have much genuinely insightful people.

I hear that.

I was roaming around the forum while he was away
And most of what I saw was "LOL"

[anarchy]

Seriously, it's not worth it having someone being kicked off for. It's just going to lead to that if this doesn't stop. Zen, I'm sorry but I'm with Mr. Novelist on this one. Everyone knows that he's joking even after the wolf icon, hence the joke about a werewolf and the hulk phrase.
I see the monkey shit in hand and it's ready to fly. I suggest that people wash their hands and move along. Furthermore, SBN contributes a lot in this forum. I suggest that you get acquainted with all his side rather than the short preconceived notion that you're dwindling on.
Stop ruining it for everyone!

Analyze all you want. Just stop attacking people or I WILL contact the forum leaders immediately. If there is any sign of mud or anything flying through the air I will see it and there will be retribution.

Sorry, but he didn't do anything wrong.
Please point out where he used word such as "motherfucker" in his post.
He didn't.
You guys are the first to proclaim so called freedom of speech and beleifs up and high whenever he tried to call bullshit on something that deserved that much.
And now, for once, he hasn't been offensive to anyone (we both know how easy it would've been for him to put insert a few good old "motherfuckers") and you still try to get him banned. You might just want to stick with that "Freedom of speech" mentality 'cause I'm starting to think that you people only get that excuse here and there when it's convenient for you..

[Zenislev]

Don't forget cannibalism. It was said that Vald was prone to cannibalism.:panting:


As for Zen. You're rambling and cluttering. Come off it for Christ Sake and grow up. You're right about one thing. This isn't about you and me. So stop aiming the monkey shit. Everyone can tell when I am joking, but you are making it harder for this thread to continue. I hope that you will be the better man and just move on after this post and not mention it any further. Please.

Dude, what in the hell are you referring to? Please point out anything that could possibly be construed as an attack. Look at your posts. Look at them. There is no substance to any of them. This isn't rambling, it's an observation followed by supporting evidence. Claiming that something is unhinged and irrelevant doesn't make it true, no matter how many times you say it.

I mean, look at what you've just typed. How does that contribute to the discussion at all? The bulk of it is some more whining about a perceived attack that just wasn't there. I don't care enough about you to target you. You are not that important.

Also, for reference on how the vast majority of my posts in this thread have been constructive, I direct you to the first page, post number eight,and every post after that. (http://www.alphaluna.net/VB/showthread.php?t=436)


Seriously, it's not worth it having someone being kicked off for. It's just going to lead to that if this doesn't stop. Zen, I'm sorry but I'm with Mr. Novelist on this one. Everyone knows that he's joking even after the wolf icon, hence the joke about a werewolf and the hulk phrase.
I see the monkey shit in hand and it's ready to fly. I suggest that people wash their hands and move along. Furthermore, SBN contributes a lot in this forum. I suggest that you get acquainted with all his side rather than the short preconceived notion that you're dwindling on.
Stop ruining it for everyone!

Since when aren't you with Silverback Novelist? You have even less of a general awareness of the world around you than he does. Of course you two are going to be buddies. Also, please point out what he contributes other than shitty jokes about pop-culture (HAHA, VAN HELSING WAS A BAD MOVIE! THAT'S A JOKE! I GET JOKES!) That'd be great if you could do so. Thanks in advance. I'd like to point out that you've misused "dwindling" in an attempt to sound intelligent. There's nothing wrong with speaking in your average vernacular, you know. You don't have to throw in words you don't know the meaning of.

Also, I don't want to get acquainted with him. I don't have to. Just like I don't expect either of you two to get to know me.



Analyze all you want. Just stop attacking people or I WILL contact the forum leaders immediately. If there is any sign of mud or anything flying through the air I will see it and there will be retribution.

Who's attacking? Also, go ahead. Go tell Wan. Go tell Wan that I'm posting on the forums.

Also, who says that they'll see to it that there will be retribution? You have zero authority. Sorry to disappoint you there, princess.


Is Science is getting out of the hand in the way that humans used it? Definitely!

Science encompasses the study of nature and its laws. Physical reality as we know it is built upon certain rules and structures separate from our own chosen perspectives. These can be codified in via mathematics or visualized geometrically. By understanding science, mankind changes his relationship with nature. Some use knowledge of natural laws to more effectively place their personal will over the forces of nature, while others use this knowledge to better harmonize their personal will with nature. The latter brings balance and bounty, while the first brings imbalance and diminishing resources. The world today runs on a power base that relies upon imbalance and diminishing resources to sustain itself as the sole providers of these resources. Technologies that advance individual freedom by connecting man directly with nature instead of through the church of scientism and industry are heavily suppressed or corrupted. Thus, technology – while not substituting for spiritual evolution – does represent an important factor in catalyzing spiritual evolution if it helps free one from material limitations and preoccupations.

Science and mathematics as taught in our public educational institutions have been dumbed down and rigged to prevent exploration into sensitive areas. This is done through tricks of logic that play upon the intellect’s many vulnerabilities, namely the inability to differentiate absolute from relative values. Certain concepts and variables are discarded on the basis of irrelevance or arbitrariness, when in actuality they are far from aribtrary and instead provide the doorway to secret sciences. Subjects are frequently taught in compartmentalized and overly abstract ways to prevent students from understanding subjects on a gnostic level, meaning on a geometric and intuitive foundation. The latter is necessary to allow true progressive and creative use of knowledge, but what is encouraged instead is applying formulas and definitions in mechanical ways, resulting in refinement rather than evolution of knowledge.

At the highest levels of truth, there is no difference between technology, occultism, and metaphysics – for all are part of a whole and the grand truth in one thus contains the grand truth in the other. Rules and structure still exist outside physicality, and these can be included in science with provisions made for freewill choice. A complete science would place astral planes, parallel dimensions, synchronicities, consciousness, etheric fields, telepathy, vital energies, emotional energies, volition, hyperdimensional existence and timeloops all under the same framework. At present, these appear to be phenomena distinct from science, but that is because science as we know it is incomplete. It is not that these phenomena can be explained in terms of present science as reductionists and debunkers enjoy doing, but rather that present science must expand to accomodate these phenomena in terms of higher physical and metaphysical principles.

I'm not entirely sure what this has to do with a discussion of mythos. Mind shedding some light on what you're getting at?


Sorry, but he didn't do anything wrong.
Please point out where he used word such as "motherfucker" in his post.
He didn't.
You guys are the first to proclaim so called freedom of speech and beleifs up and high whenever he tried to call bullshit on something that deserved that much.
And now, for once, he hasn't been offensive to anyone (we both know how easy it would've been for him to put insert a few good old "motherfuckers") and you still try to get him banned. You might just want to stick with that "Freedom of speech" mentality 'cause I'm starting to think that you people only get that excuse here and there when it's convenient for you..

Quick note: I did say "motherfucker", but that was in reference to a Mr. Thiess, who claimed that he and other werewolves were "hounds of god." If the management would like to give me a warning about referring to a man long-dead as a "motherfucker", then I'm totally ok with that.

Anyway, what was it that was in your signature for a bit, Anarchy? I think it went like this:

Idiots are converted by the millions, but reason is gaining ground.

[Vain]

Well, I'm glad that you don't care about being banned, because you certainly are headed for it. Thanks everyone else for convincing me to move forward with talking to Wan and Leo. There won't be hard feelings then.
Also, there are plenty of other sources than just one guy. Sure Zen make a fine argument, but for Christ sakes one person isn't always right and often I have noticed that he goes on tangent on how HE think about a subject and proclam it to be absolute truth. That's crap. Sorry to break it to you. You're not all knowing and you're not as smart as you think you are. Get over yourself. You ARE aiming at members, trying to instill some sick, twisted power in yourself. Sorry, but you have no power here.

Also, Vald was known to eat body parts of his enemies. It is thought that it was his way of taking his enemies power, strength and intelligence. If you watched the segment on Vald on the History channel you would have known that. It's kind of like the way Zen hack at people and tries to put himself on a pedestal. Truthfully, I have never met an egoist as like him.

[neoritter]

I'm gonna butt in a for a moment and say that Zen is actually is more in the right at this point. Vain, you've blown this argument onto another level by inserting threats of bans and "I'm gonna tell." This is getting really annoying.

[Were Dono]

Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch



...God, you're retarded.
As if I don't get enough comments about how much people get annoyed by you.

I could go off on you.
But, honestly? I'd probably be banned for the shit I have to say to you.

All I'm going to say now is that you should shut the fuck up.
You're one of the many people who bitch about the forum being dead every time Zen leaves.

And you really must have just skimmed over what Anarchy said.
You really should read it.
Because then you'll realize how hypocritical you're being.


I'm gonna butt in a for a moment and say that Zen is actually is more in the right at this point. Vain, you've blown this argument onto another level by inserting threats of bans and "I'm gonna tell." This is getting really annoying.

Basically.
But, how much you wanna bet
She's going to plug her ears and go "LALALALA, I can't hear you!"

[Zenislev]

Well, I'm glad that you don't care about being banned, because you certainly are headed for it.

Please provide supporting evidence for this.



Thanks everyone else for convincing me to move forward with talking to Wan and Leo. There won't be hard feelings then.

Let me be the first to say: You are so welcome.



Also, there are plenty of other sources than just one guy. Sure Zen make a fine argument, but for Christ sakes one person isn't always right and often I have noticed that he goes on tangent on how HE think about a subject and proclam it to be absolute truth.

Ok? I'm kind of confused as to where you see holes in what is and isn't real. Physics, not me, but physics as a practice, science, and community says that you can't just spontaneously generate mass. Especially not in an environment like ours, which would literally catch fire if you were to attempt it, what with all the energy such a process would throw off.

If you're angry at physics, that's a whole 'nother issue.



That's crap. Sorry to break it to you. You're not all knowing and you're not as smart as you think you are. Get over yourself. You ARE aiming at members, trying to instill some sick, twisted power in yourself. Sorry, but you have no power here.

Again, ok? Who claimed I was all-knowing? Who claimed I was smarter than your average person? If anything, I believe I've always told you people that I hold myself at the "average" bar, and have been consistently bewildered as to how many fall short.

I also fail to see how it is I would be instilling power in myself by wasting energy targeting people that I just don't care one way or the other about. I can't seem to find where I've been attempting to exert said power. If you could provide some evidence here as well, that'd be much appreciated.



Also, Vald was known to eat body parts of his enemies. It is thought that it was his way of taking his enemies power, strength and intelligence. If you watched the segment on Vald on the History channel you would have known that.

Who's arguing?




It's kind of like the way Zen hack at people and tries to put himself on a pedestal. Truthfully, I have never met an egoist as like him.

The word is "egotist." An "egoist" is someone who prescribes to "egoism", which is a set of beliefs that says the following:

Individual self-interest is the actual motive of all conscious action and/or that individual self-interest is the valid end of all actions.

When used in reference to a person, an egoist would have an excessive concern for themselves. This would be there with or without the (unwarranted) pride.

Now, the word you were looking for, that being "egotist", is defined as follows:

1 a : excessive use of the first person singular personal pronoun b : the practice of talking about oneself too much
2 : an exaggerated sense of self-importance : CONCEIT

From where I sit, the only people talking about me would be you and Silverback. And...the only people saying anything about my importance would be you, Silverback, and Kitetsu. In order to be egotistical, I'd have to be doing all of the above all on my own.

I'll also note that you have yet to provide any of the evidence I've asked for. I mean, I'm willing to go with you on this, as well as back off entirely, but I'd like to see how you come to the conclusions that you come to. Am I asking too much?

[Leo]

Ook.... My head hurts. I was about to write down my personal oppinion to this matters but more important I think it's time to put some lines here and there...

First, I don't see the point to be looking for absolute truth. It's a comic fantasy related story forum, no more. Stop taking everything that seriously and lets our admit when we're wrong to move forward.

In the same line it's safer say "I disagree" rather than throw rocks and put down a person and point of your finger about how ignorant he or she is in your own oppinion, Zen?. That is out of the question , and it will be at same level than insluting. Ok?.

Second, Vain is this really neccesary?. Clamming for Ban won't help pending issues. Guys, please... I've only aksed participation and much of you have done your part of it even when I've been away.

Since I've tried to asimilate everything posted so far , there are a few post that I skipped because it's really tired for me reading english when I need seriously a new pair of glasses.

So I'll be certanly looking over here from now on to keep on track and come with a more thoughtfull opinion. Scratch and clean, second chance for all of you.

[anarchy]

Anyway, what was it that was in your signature for a bit, Anarchy? I think it went like this:

Idiots are converted by the millions, but reason is gaining ground.

Yep, yep. From Les vulgaire machins' Compter les corps. And I coming to realize times and times again that this song is full of truth.

Anyway. Vain, like he said, said never claimed to know all. And if it appears that he's always right, that's because he actually make sure he knows what he's talking about.

[Vain]

Second, Vain is this really neccesary?. Clamming for Ban won't help pending issues. Guys, please... I've only aksed participation and much of you have done your part of it even when I've been away.

I never made a clam on a ban. They're making it seem like Zen is the victim here, but something has to be done. Shaking a finger won't make him stop. You know that more than anyone. They have even made that clear.
I even made mention that it isn't something worth being banned over.

Funny, I have a quote as well. "People are stupid. Individuals are smart." I'm glad I'm an individual and not part of some posse.

[Were Dono]

Lol



Well, I'm glad that you don't care about being banned, because you certainly are headed for it. Thanks everyone else for convincing me to move forward with talking to Wan and Leo.



Analyze all you want. Just stop attacking people or I WILL contact the forum leaders immediately.

[Zenislev]

I never made a clam on a ban. They're making it seem like Zen is the victim here, but something has to be done. Shaking a finger won't make him stop. You know that more than anyone. They have even made that clear.
I even made mention that it isn't something worth being banned over.

Funny, I have a quote as well. "People are stupid. Individuals are smart." I'm glad I'm an individual and not part of some posse.

And I totally applaud your individuality. You are thinkin' outside the box, smoothin' the curve, wearin' kah-ray-zay colors. You don't have to be hip, with-it, dope, or stupid-fresh. You're just entirely too enlightened for those of us in this posse (Man, first I'm a despot, them I'm the forum's antichrist, then I'm Shaft, and now I have a posse? I'm fucking amazing.)


I totally agree that something has to be done about me. I mean, am I going to be allowed to ask questions, unchecked? For how much longer will I provide evidence to back up my claims, and ask others to do so as well? When will I stop remembering things for more than a day? I am clearly a menace to this forum and society at large. I am sorry that I didn't see it sooner. I will turn myself in to the authorities at the earliest convenience.

You are just so smart, intuitive, and individualistic. I don't know what we would do without you. Of course you didn't make claims of a ban.



Well, I'm glad that you don't care about being banned, because you certainly are headed for it. Thanks everyone else for convincing me to move forward with talking to Wan and Leo. There won't be hard feelings then.




Analyze all you want. Just stop attacking people or I WILL contact the forum leaders immediately. If there is any sign of mud or anything flying through the air I will see it and there will be retribution.

Oh...fuck, my bad. It turns out that you don't know what you're saying at all. I mean...those statements right there are pretty much you threatening a ban. Which is great, because I guess that means you think you can run to Wan, tell him that I'm not nice, and have me banned at a moment's notice. It is, however, totally true that you never made a clam on a ban. You can't make clams that way, silly.

I'd like to ask, though: What is it I'm doing, exactly? I mean...what needs to be stopped? Can you clarify that? 'Cause again, I'm totally willing to do it, you just have to fill me in on what "it" may be.

Also, nice quote. Where'd you get that? Men in Black? I think that something like it was said in that movie.



Lol

Yeah, evidence to the contrary of what someone claims is great, huh?





In the same line it's safer say "I disagree" rather than throw rocks and put down a person and point of your finger about how ignorant he or she is in your own oppinion, Zen?. That is out of the question , and it will be at same level than insluting. Ok?.

I have yet to see a rock. I went over this with you via IM, and we did come to the conclusion that I have yet to really use any personal attacks, right? Just want to make sure. I mean, we can all agree that if I think someone's an idiot, I'll just come out and say it. I've never refrained from doing so in the past. It's always really, really clear what I think of a person.

[kitetsu]

Sigh.


Bottom line: Nobody wants a discussion that's either set in a bed full of allergy-inducing flowers or a desolate, barren warzone. Vain, you're diving nose-first to the latter, and that turns me off, because then you'll have people kiss ass and say "oooooh you're liek SOOOOO RIGHT!!". You DO realize that that kind of bollocks makes things not progress, right?

I'm not saying this just so the discussion can be more serious and make Zen degenerate back to Zenislev v0.1. I'm only saying this because i, for one, want REAL INFORMATION, for once, regardless if the user is a noob with an avatar of an ugly baby with hypertrichosis.

[Zenislev]

Sigh.


Bottom line: Nobody wants a discussion that's either set in a bed full of allergy-inducing flowers or a desolate, barren warzone. Vain, you're diving nose-first to the latter, and that turns me off, because then you'll have people kiss ass and say "oooooh you're liek SOOOOO RIGHT!!". You DO realize that that kind of bollocks makes things not progress, right?

I'm not saying this just so the discussion can be more serious and make Zen degenerate back to Zenislev v0.1. I'm only saying this because i, for one, want REAL INFORMATION, for once, regardless if the user is a noob with an avatar of an ugly baby with hypertrichosis.


Oooh, is this an invitation to go into the brain-works of the people who will readily claim that they're werewolves? 'Cause they contribute a great deal to modern-day mythos.

[kitetsu]

I'd be shitting myself if it was. But if they have some new (or decent) insight, i'd probably listen... Not that i actually believe their daily claims of lycanthropy.

[The wild one]

There should probably be a sticky put up on what has been already discussed and more importantly, hammered to death. At least that way people wouldn't go pointlessly in circles and recycling garbage.

anyway, I have a question that wants clarification. The bite theory; did that have any mythological origin?, or was it a pure Hollywood invention.I watched a documentary on this about werewolf films on the history channel ages ago. and my impression is that this whole thing seemed to have started off upon creation of the first wolf man films( when they looked like people with hypertrichosis.) I'm just unsure about it and a solid answer would be great.

if this question has already been asked then just please ignore it.(bad enough wasting peoples time as it is)

[kitetsu]

I think it's a HollyShit invention. And if i remember correctly, Zen mentioned that originally, you become a werewolf when you ingest their germs.

[The wild one]

Oh yeah, i nearly forgot about that. Okay, question answered . Thanks very much.

[Zenislev]

There should probably be a sticky put up on what has been already discussed and more importantly, hammered to death. At least that way people wouldn't go pointlessly in circles and recycling garbage.

anyway, I have a question that wants clarification. The bite theory; did that have any mythological origin?, or was it a pure Hollywood invention.I watched a documentary on this about werewolf films on the history channel ages ago. and my impression is that this whole thing seemed to have started off upon creation of the first wolf man films( when they looked like people with hypertrichosis.) I'm just unsure about it and a solid answer would be great.

if this question has already been asked then just please ignore it.(bad enough wasting peoples time as it is)


I think it's a HollyShit invention. And if i remember correctly, Zen mentioned that originally, you become a werewolf when you ingest their germs.


That's actually somewhat of a gray area. While there are very few accounts of lycanthropy being communicable via bite, it does fall in line with the rest of the mythos: That being the whole deal with wounds needing to be cleaned, avoidance of dirty water, etc. So, whereas it was made prevalent by more modern stories, the idea that "animals carry disease, don't fuck around" is one of the corner-stones of the whole myth.

[The wild one]

That's actually somewhat of a gray area. While there are very few accounts of lycanthropy being communicable via bite, it does fall in line with the rest of the mythos: That being the whole deal with wounds needing to be cleaned, avoidance of dirty water, etc. So, whereas it was made prevalent by more modern stories, the idea that "animals carry disease, don't fuck around" is one of the corner-stones of the whole myth.

Thank you! ^^

[neoritter]

That's actually somewhat of a gray area. While there are very few accounts of lycanthropy being communicable via bite, it does fall in line with the rest of the mythos: That being the whole deal with wounds needing to be cleaned, avoidance of dirty water, etc. So, whereas it was made prevalent by more modern stories, the idea that "animals carry disease, don't fuck around" is one of the corner-stones of the whole myth.
Got to it before I did. To kind of add, the increased usage of bites in werewolves myths has pretty much increased over time. You can find stories that appear around the renaissance or a tad earlier that involve the "cursed" being bitten.

Its not that Hollywood made it up persay, but its not really a common traditional method. I guess its more of a way to tell that this stuff is fiction that the means and ways have changed over the ages.

Oh and one more thing involving this. Another thing to consider is if this portion was started with werewolf myths or vampire myths. I think i made mention of this at some point, but werewolf and vampire myths have tended to be mixed and confused. The "bite" being one of them, along with thralls, and weakness to silver. Considering that most information for a long time is hearsay and oral story, its really hard to determine which bit of info belongs to which myth originally.

[TheWolfMoon]

Plain and simple: No.

You need more than a genetic quirk. You need a way to build the necessary bone, muscle, hair, and tendons that you'd need in order for that organism to function. Anything else is science-fiction. Also, gene-swapping doesn't work like that. You can't integrate someone else's DNA into your own code simply by sharing a soda or "making out." I'm sure they've taught you the way it works in school.

As for how it started: According to mythos, it started as a punishment. Lycaon, king of Arcadia, served Zeus a dish made of human flesh (some accounts say it was one of Zeus' sons, others say it was one of Lycaon's sons, as he was said to have fifty.) This pissed Zeus off, and he killed Lycaon's family, then turned the king himself into a wolf. That's how it started.

There is no secret city of werewolves, as the werewolf itself defies simple physics. You can't get something from nothing. See the first paragraph for the things you would need to build. Those take certain materials. Materials that, if removed in the necessary quantities from the rest of your body, would cause you to cease functioning (read: die). There's also no way for you to store said materials in the right quantities, as your blood would become septic, and again, you would die.

I've been over this with the people of this board about a billion times. I've actually been over this with you several times in the past. If you feel like discussing it as a matter of faith, be my guest. Don't try to explain it, though. The only viable explanation is "straight-fucking-magic." And, as we can all attest to: That doesn't work either. Don't believe me? Pick up a copy of the Ars Goetia. Try some of the stuff in there out. Nothing will happen. One of the most renowned magic grimoires ever, and it does nothing. Take that, arguers of the impossible!


1.I know that it is impossible i was just giveing ideas mabe for stories or something if found ideas for MY stories from stuff like this...
2.I don't read up on Werewolf stuff OR on legends i just come across stuff. thats why i said "From What I Know"
3.I don't go to school i have been Homeschooled from 2nd Grade but i know all about "Body Functions" both Male and Female and about "Sex" so its alright.
4.I don't belive in Magic.

[WLewy]

Well... a lot of people are right...we have a lot of boundaries to get over to find a suitable answer to all...Yet myths, legends, science,remains just that... :closedgrin:

[SilverBack Novelist]

Well... a lot of people are right...we have a lot of boundaries to get over to find a suitable answer to all...Yet myths, legends, science,remains just that... :closedgrin:



In separate categories, I hope. Let the myths be myths and science rule it's own. Comparing and contrasting will be just fine, though.

[WLewy]

In separate categories, I hope. Let the myths be myths and science rule it's own. Comparing and contrasting will be just fine, though.

Thanks for correcting me...Forgive me!:closedgrin:

[SilverBack Novelist]

You are forgiven grasshopper. Now feast upon the plentiful bounty of chocolate and ice cream and let it be your guide to true love....Feast!

[WLewy]

I don't quite get you! But ... Thanks...:lol:

[kitetsu]

1.I know that it is impossible i was just giveing ideas mabe for stories or something if found ideas for MY stories from stuff like this...
2.I don't read up on Werewolf stuff OR on legends i just come across stuff. thats why i said "From What I Know"
3.I don't go to school i have been Homeschooled from 2nd Grade but i know all about "Body Functions" both Male and Female and about "Sex" so its alright.
4.I don't belive in Magic.

1. Do some research.

2. Pick up anything readable and digest it.

3. Learn yourself on anything you find. That's what i'm doing ever since i got expelled for being a furry at the start of 10th grade.

4. That statement is going straight to the lists of things that stunt your imagination. I also find it very detestable and i might not be the only one who frowns at such an opinion.

[Night Wolf]

*reads through the topic*
All that happens and I didn't see anything...o.O

I wonder why the hell people just can't accept the fact that weres are myths? xD

[Wan]

*tries to read the thread and fails*

C'mon, guys, please stop the personal attacks. As said countless times, this is intended to be a place where people can talk about a common topic. But, if people can't agree about something in particular, there's nothing to do about it.

Quoting Leo:


First, I don't see the point to be looking for absolute truth. It's a comic fantasy related story forum, no more. Stop taking everything that seriously and lets our admit when we're wrong to move forward.

In the same line it's safer say "I disagree" rather than throw rocks and put down a person and point of your finger about how ignorant he or she is in your own oppinion, Zen?. That is out of the question , and it will be at same level than insluting. Ok?.

Please TRY to have that in mind. Everyone.

[Zenislev]

*reads through the topic*
All that happens and I didn't see anything...o.O

I wonder why the hell people just can't accept the fact that weres are myths? xD

For the same reason that some people will never admit that they have no idea who God is, and if they even exist.


1. Do some research.

2. Pick up anything readable and digest it.

3. Learn yourself on anything you find. That's what i'm doing ever since i got expelled for being a furry at the start of 10th grade.

4. That statement is going straight to the lists of things that stunt your imagination. I also find it very detestable and i might not be the only one who frowns at such an opinion.

That last one, I take issue with. Not that I believe you should totally rule something out without looking into it, but seriously? Burning some candles, chanting some words, and dribbling some blood every now and again is going to effect the world around you? Yeah, I don't think so. Honestly, if you believe in magic, pick up the Ars Goetia, try it out, and then get back to me with the results.


*tries to read the thread and fails*

C'mon, guys, please stop the personal attacks. As said countless times, this is intended to be a place where people can talk about a common topic. But, if people can't agree about something in particular, there's nothing to do about it.

Quoting Leo:



Please TRY to have that in mind. Everyone.

In the interest of pointing out those personal attacks, could you try reading the entire thread? I'm really not seeing them.

[kitetsu]

The reason why i give a shit about point 4 is that i feel that opinions like TheWolfMoon's is the bane of human imagination, therefore i've an extreme bias to it.

Besides, my mother would beat me half-dead if she found out i've been playing with blood.

[ShiroiFox]

So many arguments. There are a few posts about myths in there but alot of random argument. I can't believe it's getting taken so seriously. Also has anyone read any of the dark hunter novels? They have a sort of Werewolf story in them. Personally i like it but each their own.

[WLewy]

This might sound strange!...Yet I'm having a hard time finding any kind of information about the pack rules (Wolf pack)...I know that the ranks are Alpha, Beta, Omega...(Correct me if I'm wrong).
But, would the same pack rules apply for lycans?
Another thing...
I can't find the specific information on each ranks , I know that the alpha is the leader ,but I need more details on each rank!
Can you guys help me out?
Thanks!:closedgrin:

[Night Wolf]

This might sound strange!...Yet I'm having a hard time finding any kind of information about the pack rules (Wolf pack)...I know that the ranks are Alpha, Beta, Omega...(Correct me if I'm wrong).
But, would the same pack rules apply for lycans?
Another thing...
I can't find the specific information on each ranks , I know that the alpha is the leader ,but I need more details on each rank!
Can you guys help me out?
Thanks!:closedgrin:

Well, werewolves don't exist, so you won't find any "real" pack laws. The stuff of Alpha, Beta, Omega are probaly names given by specialists in wolf behavior o_o

[Zenislev]

So many arguments. There are a few posts about myths in there but alot of random argument. I can't believe it's getting taken so seriously. Also has anyone read any of the dark hunter novels? They have a sort of Werewolf story in them. Personally i like it but each their own.

You know what I think a good time is? Checking the dates of posts before complaining about them. That always gets me goin'. Try it sometime.



This might sound strange!...Yet I'm having a hard time finding any kind of information about the pack rules (Wolf pack)...I know that the ranks are Alpha, Beta, Omega...(Correct me if I'm wrong).
But, would the same pack rules apply for lycans?
Another thing...
I can't find the specific information on each ranks , I know that the alpha is the leader ,but I need more details on each rank!
Can you guys help me out?
Thanks!:closedgrin:


As nightwolf had said, look into the average wolf pack system. In all honesty, there isn't any sort of established "pack rules" for werecreatures, partially because not all of them travel in packs. Usually, you see a werewolf in a story, it's by itself. Anyway:

In your average canine biology, it breaks down like this...

Packs are led by the alpha male and female, and these two affect all activity in the pack to some extent. In most larger packs there are two separate hierarchies in addition to an overbearing one: the first consists of the males, led by the alpha male, and the other consists of the females, led by the alpha female. In this situation, the alpha male was originally assumed to be the "top" alpha, but biologists have since concluded that alpha females can, and sometimes do take control over entire packs. The male and female hierarchies are interdependent (meaning that, while able to exist on their own, there's a mutual push and pull), and are maintained constantly by aggressive and elaborate displays of dominance and submission.

After the alphas comes the betas. They're the "second-in-command." Betas typically assume a more prominent role in assisting with the upbringing of the alpha pair's litter, often serving as surrogate mothers or fathers while the alpha pair is away. Betas are also the most likely to challenge their superiors for the role of the alpha, though some betas seem content with being second, and will sometimes even let lower ranking wolves leapfrog them for the position of alpha should circumstances necessitate such a happening, such as the death of the alpha. More ambitious beta wolves, however, will only wait so long before contending for alpha position unless they choose to disperse and create their own pack instead.

From there, the pack roles can really be split into "hunting party" and "camping party." Some will accompany the other wolves on the hunt, others will sit tight with the young, hold down the fort, teach the cubs to do various things, etc.

That brings us to the Omegas, which are basically there to keep the other wolves happy. They're essentially fuzzy whipping sticks. Anyone has a gripe? Take it out on the Omega. For wolves, anything is better than solitude, which is why seeing a lone wolf basically means that there's something horribly wrong with it.


Anyway, there you have it.

[Night Wolf]

In your average canine biology, it breaks down like this...

Packs are led by the alpha male and female, and these two affect all activity in the pack to some extent. In most larger packs there are two separate hierarchies in addition to an overbearing one: the first consists of the males, led by the alpha male, and the other consists of the females, led by the alpha female. In this situation, the alpha male was originally assumed to be the "top" alpha, but biologists have since concluded that alpha females can, and sometimes do take control over entire packs. The male and female hierarchies are interdependent (meaning that, while able to exist on their own, there's a mutual push and pull), and are maintained constantly by aggressive and elaborate displays of dominance and submission.

After the alphas comes the betas. They're the "second-in-command." Betas typically assume a more prominent role in assisting with the upbringing of the alpha pair's litter, often serving as surrogate mothers or fathers while the alpha pair is away. Betas are also the most likely to challenge their superiors for the role of the alpha, though some betas seem content with being second, and will sometimes even let lower ranking wolves leapfrog them for the position of alpha should circumstances necessitate such a happening, such as the death of the alpha. More ambitious beta wolves, however, will only wait so long before contending for alpha position unless they choose to disperse and create their own pack instead.

From there, the pack roles can really be split into "hunting party" and "camping party." Some will accompany the other wolves on the hunt, others will sit tight with the young, hold down the fort, teach the cubs to do various things, etc.

That brings us to the Omegas, which are basically there to keep the other wolves happy. They're essentially fuzzy whipping sticks. Anyone has a gripe? Take it out on the Omega. For wolves, anything is better than solitude, which is why seeing a lone wolf basically means that there's something horribly wrong with it.


Anyway, there you have it.
Nice...I never quite understood how packs organized themselves, especially the shitty role of Omegas :lol:
Thanks for explaining :closedgrin:

[WLewy]

Thanks Zen!
I will save this!
This makes a lot of sense! Especially that I never really knew the purpose of the last rank (omega)...
Anyway...Thanks! It helped a lot!:closedgrin:

[Were Dono]

In your average canine biology, it breaks down like this...

Packs are led by the alpha male and female, and these two affect all activity in the pack to some extent. In most larger packs there are two separate hierarchies in addition to an overbearing one: the first consists of the males, led by the alpha male, and the other consists of the females, led by the alpha female. In this situation, the alpha male was originally assumed to be the "top" alpha, but biologists have since concluded that alpha females can, and sometimes do take control over entire packs. The male and female hierarchies are interdependent (meaning that, while able to exist on their own, there's a mutual push and pull), and are maintained constantly by aggressive and elaborate displays of dominance and submission.

After the alphas comes the betas. They're the "second-in-command." Betas typically assume a more prominent role in assisting with the upbringing of the alpha pair's litter, often serving as surrogate mothers or fathers while the alpha pair is away. Betas are also the most likely to challenge their superiors for the role of the alpha, though some betas seem content with being second, and will sometimes even let lower ranking wolves leapfrog them for the position of alpha should circumstances necessitate such a happening, such as the death of the alpha. More ambitious beta wolves, however, will only wait so long before contending for alpha position unless they choose to disperse and create their own pack instead.

From there, the pack roles can really be split into "hunting party" and "camping party." Some will accompany the other wolves on the hunt, others will sit tight with the young, hold down the fort, teach the cubs to do various things, etc.

That brings us to the Omegas, which are basically there to keep the other wolves happy. They're essentially fuzzy whipping sticks. Anyone has a gripe? Take it out on the Omega. For wolves, anything is better than solitude, which is why seeing a lone wolf basically means that there's something horribly wrong with it.


Anyway, there you have it.


I forgot to save this when we talked about it a while ago
Now I get to.
Thanks, hun.

[Saexom]

Is there a way for me to jump to the last page of a thread? I pretty much browse the Glock Talk most recent post page, and I have to click on the thread and then click to the last page. Does my question even make sense?

[Leo]

Is there a way for me to jump to the last page of a thread? I pretty much browse the Glock Talk most recent post page, and I have to click on the thread and then click to the last page. Does my question even make sense?

Errr not really, not much. What was your point? :s