back on topic

[Arsenic]

Back on topic...


Notice that I'm using a different but similar formula to the one used in your PDF. It calculates the attraction between two point masses. Normally this wouldn't strictly apply to a 3d object such as us humans but because our mass is so extremely small ( compared to a planet ) and the moon is circular you can cheat and use it anyway.

F=G(m1m2/d^2)


F is the force exchanged between the two bodies ( in newton ), in this case, a person, and the moon.

G the universal gravitational constant ( approx 6.67x10^-11 )

m1 a human

m2 the moon

d the average distance between the moon and our human

Because there are no + or - in the formula and none of the variables are 0 we must conclude that we have an answer and that the moon does have an effect on us.

[neoritter]

I don't mean to get "off-topic" or anything, but what exactly is the topic here?

[Wan]

I guess it's related to the "Power of the Moon" topic.

I DON'T WANT TO SEE ANY FIGHT. Otherwise, I'll end the discussion with a lock.

[neoritter]

Okay well then, if what Arsenic is saying is all factual etc. Then fine and dandy do. If its not I still see that even if there is no physical effects, there may well be psychological effects. There is the whole story of mind of matter and who some people can make them selves sick by just thinking they are (or something like that).

[SilverBack Novelist]

POwers OF ThE Moooon....Wooooo!:wacko: What a scary topic....:Jester2:

It's all theoretical, whether the moon places an important part in the affects of the ocean tide, werewolves and eskimos. It's whether you believe in mysticism. And of course, I do consider religion in this matter. To shun a belief system would be arrogant of anyone. The wiccan religion contains a lot of beliefs that the moon has power over nature and the supernatural.

Now, I don't believe in werewolves, but at least I respect those people that do. My thoughts about how the moon played a role in werewolves were that it could have been some sort of idol worship or an inspiration to transform. Long ago, people were supersticious, fearing to go out at night, fearing the "evil hours" and what demons lurked during the night. Practically, no one ever went out when the moon was full and of course there were the tales of werewolves to inspire this fear.
Let's just say that werewolves were real, for haha's. It would be a form of religion to worship the moon, as the native americans did, granting them power over the forces. It would serve as the time in which they could freely change into their animal forms. I always figured that the moon was a tool for werewolves, for them to have their way in those days, so that they won't be spotted, persecuted and shot with a silver bullet(not that it could work in the legend).

That's my two cents. People can agree for or disagree on this. Again, as I say, it's all theoretical, just like global warming for the politicians to play off of it......Go ahead.....Have fun....Say something original.......Just don't be a dictator and cause this thread to close.

[Zenislev]

Back on topic...

You can't simply calculate the one thing and leave it at that. The earth and moon exert their pull on us at the same time. Given that the earth is not only much bigger, but much closer to us, it's pull is going to be exponentially larger.

This means one of two things:

1. The moon's pull would only serve to lessen the earth's pull on us.

2. The amount that it would lessen said pull would be miniscule, given it's size and distance from us in comparison to that of the earth.

The moon's gravitational pull isn't strong enough to produce any sort of effect on the human body. Go back over the article, follow the math to the letter, look up whatever variable you have to. You are going to find that you can experience the same reduction in gravitational pull by going up a total of five steps. That puts enough distance between you and the surface of the earth to weaken it's pull on you as much as the moon does.

Long story short: You're only doing like, a quarter of the work, and you look like an idiot. Basic highschool physics isn't gonna cut it.


Okay well then, if what Arsenic is saying is all factual etc. Then fine and dandy do. If its not I still see that even if there is no physical effects, there may well be psychological effects. There is the whole story of mind of matter and who some people can make them selves sick by just thinking they are (or something like that).

Congratulations on re-stating what I had originally said in the first thread about the moon. You are simply amazing. A cadillac of men. A gleaming adonis to which we should all measure ourselves to. I wish I could do half the things you manage.

POwers OF ThE Moooon....Wooooo! What a scary topic....

It's all theoretical, whether the moon places an important part in the affects of the ocean tide, werewolves and eskimos. It's whether you believe in mysticism. And of course, I do consider religion in this matter. To shun a belief system would be arrogant of anyone. The wiccan religion contains a lot of beliefs that the moon has power over nature and the supernatural.

It's not theoretical. It contributes to a system already in place. As the earth rotates, the gravitational pull of the sun is concentrated on different areas of the ocean, causing gravitational differences to form within that large body of water. With those differential forces working within said body, shifts occur in where the mass goes. Boom. Tides. The moon just puts another pull on another part, increasing the differential force. It's been proven, deal with it.

Moving on to mysticism: Show me a direct, cause-and-effect relationship between any of your little spells. You can't (on the off chance that I'm wrong here, by all means, prove it.) Don't bring it up in serious discussion, because I will tear it apart every time.



Now, I don't believe in werewolves, but at least I respect those people that do. My thoughts about how the moon played a role in werewolves were that it could have been some sort of idol worship or an inspiration to transform. Long ago, people were supersticious, fearing to go out at night, fearing the "evil hours" and what demons lurked during the night. Practically, no one ever went out when the moon was full and of course there were the tales of werewolves to inspire this fear.

Way to attempt to cover your ass for believing in nonsensical garbage. Anyway, we covered this. Many times. Many, many times. We know where and why the myths originated. Weren't you saying something about being original?



Let's just say that werewolves were real, for haha's. It would be a form of religion to worship the moon, as the native americans did, granting them power over the forces. It would serve as the time in which they could freely change into their animal forms. I always figured that the moon was a tool for werewolves, for them to have their way in those days, so that they won't be spotted, persecuted and shot with a silver bullet(not that it could work in the legend).

I'm not gettin' the connection here. How is this some kind of religion? And, werewolves hangin' out on the night where there's the most light to avoid being spotted is just stupid. By that logic, they'd wait for the new moon, when there wasn't a big solar reflecting dish in the sky.



That's my two cents. People can agree for or disagree on this. Again, as I say, it's all theoretical, just like global warming for the politicians to play off of it......Go ahead.....Have fun....Say something original.......Just don't be a dictator and cause this thread to close.

Global warming is happening, look at the temperatures and weather patterns all around the world. It's not theoretical, it's an easily spotted fact of life. Saying something is theoretical doesn't give you liscense to spout nonsense.

Also, I have yet to see any dictators, despots, or otherwise unsavory governmental figures.

[neoritter]

You can't simply calculate the one thing and leave it at that. The earth and moon exert their pull on us at the same time. Given that the earth is not only much bigger, but much closer to us, it's pull is going to be exponentially larger.

This means one of two things:

1. The moon's pull would only serve to lessen the earth's pull on us.

2. The amount that it would lessen said pull would be miniscule, given it's size and distance from us in comparison to that of the earth.

The moon's gravitational pull isn't strong enough to produce any sort of effect on the human body. Go back over the article, follow the math to the letter, look up whatever variable you have to. You are going to find that you can experience the same reduction in gravitational pull by going up a total of five steps. That puts enough distance between you and the surface of the earth to weaken it's pull on you as much as the moon does.

But the Earth's effect on a human would be constant. The Earth's gravitational pull last time I checked was constant. The moon's affect obviously is not constant (example: tides). The test here is not to see if the Earth has an effect, but that the change in the moon affects a person.



Congratulations on re-stating what I had originally said in the first thread about the moon. You are simply amazing. A cadillac of men. A gleaming adonis to which we should all measure ourselves to. I wish I could do half the things you manage.


Who cares what you had "originally said." I either A) forgot you even wrote it, or B) never bothered to read what you wrote. People's opinions don't all have to spawn from your imagined genius and originality.

Now stop taking your frustration out on the people here at the forums because you little brother took up too much time on the computer.

[Wan]

Second warning. Stop insulting eachother or I'll close this thread.

Plus, the Ban button is waiting for someone to be used upon *grins*

[Zenislev]

But the Earth's effect on a human would be constant. The Earth's gravitational pull last time I checked was constant. The moon's affect obviously is not constant (example: tides). The test here is not to see if the Earth has an effect, but that the change in the moon affects a person.

Ritter, shush. This whole deal has already been settled. Read the article I linked you to. The moon's gravitational pull on you weakens the earth's by the same amount as going up five steps. Which is to say: It doesn't really do a damn thing. Let me run down what you'd need to do to determine this, because I guess "read the article" is just too damn cryptic:

Step 1: Calculate that constant pull the earth has on you.

Step 2: Calculate the amount of pull the moon would have on you, given it's distance and size.

Step 3: Using a relatively simple Is/of = %/100, determine what percent of the total gravitational pull of the earth that of the moon could take away.

Step 4: Use this equation: http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i306/Vual/solveforH.jpg?t=1169152324
And solve for H. The rest of the values necessary can be found, once again, in this article published in "The Physics Teacher", and was revised December 31 2005: http://www.jal.cc.il.us/%7Emikolajsawicki/Tides_new2.pdf

Step 5: This will get you (should you do the math right) about 0.79 meters, or five steps up off the earth's crust.

Step 6: After reaching that conclusion, it's advisable that you go do something other than fight losing battles.




Who cares what you had "originally said." I either A) forgot you even wrote it, or B) never bothered to read what you wrote. People's opinions don't all have to spawn from your imagined genius and originality.

Now stop taking your frustration out on the people here at the forums because you little brother took up too much time on the computer.

This isn't frustration, it's anger at ignorance and bravado. I'm not saying I'm a genius, I'm saying you're not half as bright as you like to think. If anything, I consider myself to be of average intelligence. Hence why the people who seem to be unable to piece shit together end up on the business end of the "shut the fuck up, you blithering idiot" stick. You should know all about that.

As for the bit about a younger sibling: Huh?


Second warning. Stop insulting eachother or I'll close this thread.

Plus, the Ban button is waiting for someone to be used upon *grins*

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that we're talking about me. In which case I would ask:

On what grounds?

Didn't we already go over this, only to find that you had no reason other than "You're not nice"? Come on, man. How many times am I gonna have to say "You need to do better than that." before you just give it up and go bother someone else? Rather than focusing on a minor irritant who also happens to know what he's talking about, why not start banning the members who're just too stupid/lazy/ridiculous in general to know when they're beat? That makes more sense to me.

[Wan]

I didn't mention any names, Zen. If you felt yourself identified it isn't my fault...

Please, guys, I'm asking it in a really good way: The only thing I want is for you (yeah, ALL OF YOU) to discuss your differences in a more polite way. As I've said before, there are many other ways to tell people that they're wrong than being harsh. It's too hard?

[SilverBack Novelist]

It's not theoretical. It contributes to a system already in place. As the earth rotates, the gravitational pull of the sun is concentrated on different areas of the ocean, causing gravitational differences to form within that large body of water. With those differential forces working within said body, shifts occur in where the mass goes. Boom. Tides. The moon just puts another pull on another part, increasing the differential force. It's been proven, deal with it.

Moving on to mysticism: Show me a direct, cause-and-effect relationship between any of your little spells. You can't (on the off chance that I'm wrong here, by all means, prove it.) Don't bring it up in serious discussion, because I will tear it apart every time.



Way to attempt to cover your ass for believing in nonsensical garbage. Anyway, we covered this. Many times. Many, many times. We know where and why the myths originated. Weren't you saying something about being original?



I'm not gettin' the connection here. How is this some kind of religion? And, werewolves hangin' out on the night where there's the most light to avoid being spotted is just stupid. By that logic, they'd wait for the new moon, when there wasn't a big solar reflecting dish in the sky.



Global warming is happening, look at the temperatures and weather patterns all around the world. It's not theoretical, it's an easily spotted fact of life. Saying something is theoretical doesn't give you liscense to spout nonsense.

Also, I have yet to see any dictators, despots, or otherwise unsavory governmental figures.

1. You're the dictator who is trying to "put people in their place" when it isn't your job to do so. That's the moderators' jobs. Time and time again you have stepped over your boundries and as a result Leo and the others have approached you about this. To bully people around is wrong in any culture. My advice to you is that if you can't be nice, as Leo has told you to, get out and find another forum to rampage in. They have talked about this way too often and have made it clear that this attitude is unacceptable.

2. Global warming is a current issue because, as of now, the world's climate is changing. The truth is that the climate fluxuates, from cold to warm to warm to cold. Back in the 1950's, they thought that we were headed for an ice age within fifty years. So far, as we have witness, there is not ice age. Global warming is a theory that can't be proven at this moment. Politicians still approach this as a threat, as a precaution measure. IT HAS YET TO BE PROVEN. Try thinking out side of the box. The media twists words and make it sound like things are worst than they seem. If this is a political ploy, it isn't any different from what we have seen the past.

3. Werewolves having a religion is a theory. Being ignorant and saying that's stupid isn't leaving room for liberal thinking. Almost every culture has one and it can be adapted to worldly issues, not to mention iconic figures, such as the moon. Note that I mentioned the wiccan religion as a religious foundation for my theory. Read all the way through before you post. You can't keep up with a conversation if you keep doing that. Jumping to conclusions won't help anything. It breeds ignorance.

4. Full moon theory...I've explained this very well. I don't see why you can't see it. You agree with me about how the myths started. We all know. This common knowledge about this sort of stuff. I am relating this full moon theory to a mythological standpoint.

5. I'm not "covering my ass" for anything. You certainly like to pick on those who believe in werewolves, not to mention those who leave it open for discussion. This is a forum that discusses a comic and werewolf topics. This is a werewolf topic, a ficticious, mythological figure that has been around for centuries. There is no truth to these legends, just made up tales to scare little children. I don't know why I have to talk about this common knowledge with you. You're a werewolf fan, aren't you? Or are you here to stroke your ignorance and bully people for something they like to discuss. Remember, there aren't any debates in here. A forum is a community, not something to determine, once and for all, an answer to a question.

6. Proof? You want proof. How about you give me proof? You certainly can't, as you say to me. All I hear from you is senseless babbling and whining and bullying. This is a discussion. Take you fits somewhere else. You haven't shown any cause-and-effect proof. You've only dictated what you believe to be the one and only truth, while making a poor attempt to humiliate others. You have no power here. You can't put anyone in their place, because it isn't your job. It's Wan's and Leo's.

7. Wow. That's amazing. I've never met anyone who couldn't read very well as you can. The statement about the stuff I said to be theoretical is about the ocean's tides being affected by the moon, not to mention the religious implications for the moon. Atheist is a word to describe someone who doesn't believe in anything. Religious, as one if it's many purposes, is to answer question asked by the public, that can't be explained by science. In an atheistic approach, the moon has no power over the ocean's tides, yet it can't be explained. Religion and beliefs systems give an answer to a question, right or wrong. It give some satifaction to the public. I never said anything theoretical about the solar system. Point out where I did and I take it back. So far, I don't see it. I certainly didn't think it, nor did I show that I wrote anything about it.....In your theory, or some scientist you ripped it off of, that is only one theory that has not been tested, nor has it been proven. I will note that there is another theory where the animals of the ocean approach the shore, causing the tide to rise. Night, as you can imagine, is when most animals feed, when the preditors are no longer present....And that's just a theory by another scientist that can't prove a thing.


As a final note, I have told Wan to close this thread, because Zenislev can't play nice. Attacking people continuously gives out a bad outlook on how this forum approaches issues. And for now on, as a note to all, I am treating people as they want to be treated. I have shown civility by ignoring bullies, as they continue to throw things in the dark. Time and time again, Leo has told everyone that this is a place for fun and discussion, not fighting and chaos.

[neoritter]

2. Global warming is a current issue because, as of now, the world's climate is changing. The truth is that the climate fluxuates, from cold to warm to warm to cold. Back in the 1950's, they thought that we were headed for an ice age within fifty years. So far, as we have witness, there is not ice age. Global warming is a theory that can't be proven at this moment. Politicians still approach this as a threat, as a precaution measure. IT HAS YET TO BE PROVEN. Try thinking out side of the box. The media twists words and make it sound like things are worst than they seem. If this is a political ploy, it isn't any different from what we have seen the past.


Actually Zen is pretty correct here. It is not a proven fact yes, but it is a very solid theory. What you are failing to realize is that there is actually a misinformation campaign out there. Can you guess by who. Anyway, yes the earth's climate does indeed fluctuate, but do you know why it does. Its because of the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. When there is a high level of CO2 the climate is higher and vice versa. Problem here is that humanity is putting out about 40,000 tons of CO2 a day. Which is a far higher amount than ever before. Couple if you will the fact of the deforestation going on. Last time I checked plants convert that CO2 to O2. It stands to reason that less plants converting CO2, means even more CO2 being kept in the atmosphere. Global warming is a very real threat, the only problem with preventing it is that it has to be a global effort. The USA may be starting to be willing to make the necessary changes but China is a big old question mark. Funny thing about this global warming is this though. It may actually cause a brief cooling period. Melted polar ice caps might block warm water flows through the atlantic, causing possibly another "Little Ice Age."

BTW - Whats the problem with trying to do something about it opposed to nothing. If the more knowledgable folk are wrong all we'd have is a cleaner earth anyway. You know cleaner burning cars. And especially an alternative to petroleum.

[SilverBack Novelist]

Actually Zen is pretty correct here. It is not a proven fact yes, but it is a very solid theory. What you are failing to realize is that there is actually a misinformation campaign out there. Can you guess by who. Anyway, yes the earth's climate does indeed fluctuate, but do you know why it does. Its because of the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. When there is a high level of CO2 the climate is higher and vice versa. Problem here is that humanity is putting out about 40,000 tons of CO2 a day. Which is a far higher amount than ever before. Couple if you will the fact of the deforestation going on. Last time I checked plants convert that CO2 to O2. It stands to reason that less plants converting CO2, means even more CO2 being kept in the atmosphere. Global warming is a very real threat, the only problem with preventing it is that it has to be a global effort. The USA may be starting to be willing to make the necessary changes but China is a big old question mark. Funny thing about this global warming is this though. It may actually cause a brief cooling period. Melted polar ice caps might block warm water flows through the atlantic, causing possibly another "Little Ice Age."

BTW - Whats the problem with trying to do something about it opposed to nothing. If the more knowledgable folk are wrong all we'd have is a cleaner earth anyway. You know cleaner burning cars. And especially an alternative to petroleum.

Nicely put, Neoritter. I never said there shouldn't be precautions to be taken. Prevention is the key to any issue. Some people don't take that first step to realize this. And yes, I heard about the "new" ice age theory. I won't rule it out, but I don't support it either. It's still a theory, even if it is a good one.

[neoritter]

Nicely put, Neoritter. I never said there shouldn't be precautions to be taken. Prevention is the key to any issue. Some people don't take that first step to realize this. And yes, I heard about the "new" ice age theory. I won't rule it out, but I don't support it either. It's still a theory, even if it is a good one.
I understand that but its hardly a political play at favor. The only political plays I see in the matter are the people telling us that global warming is a myth. I think back to the pseudoscientists that said that nicotine was not addictive.

[SilverBack Novelist]

I understand that but its hardly a political play at favor. The only political plays I see in the matter are the people telling us that global warming is a myth. I think back to the pseudoscientists that said that nicotine was not addictive.

Yeah, Bush doesn't have much of a take on it at all. He didn't make much of a statement during his first term, before the war...Before the dark side....before the empire.:lol:

[neoritter]

Yeah, Bush doesn't have much of a take on it at all. He didn't make much of a statement during his first term, before the war...Before the dark side....before the empire.:lol:
I guess you haven't been listening to any of his State of the Union Adresses or some of the other speeches. And I fail to see how Bush has much to do with this. He's pretty much a lame duck President at the moment.

[Zenislev]

1. You're the dictator who is trying to "put people in their place" when it isn't your job to do so. That's the moderators' jobs. Time and time again you have stepped over your boundries and as a result Leo and the others have approached you about this. To bully people around is wrong in any culture. My advice to you is that if you can't be nice, as Leo has told you to, get out and find another forum to rampage in. They have talked about this way too often and have made it clear that this attitude is unacceptable.

So, what you're trying to say is that you're completely spineless and way too stupid to admit when you're wrong, instead claiming liberal thinking as your liscense for not knowing a damn thing? On top of that, when someone tries to redirect you, then you take an attitude, their retaliation is bullying? Wow, that's just brilliant.

I'll let you in on a little something: I'm mean to you because you're dumb and insist you're not. A simple look around will tell you that I don't tend to bother people who don't deserve it (Example: Most members of the forum.) Nor do I track you down for this sort of thing. You always manage to scoot about, spouting hypocritic phrases and volumes of other nonsense before I even glance in your direction.

Next: You think I'm bad for society? Look in the mirror, you wuss. When someone takes themselves as seriously as you do, we run into some real societal danger. I mean, let's face it: You're one smug mother fucker for no good reason. You call yourself a novelist, but can't produce one published work. You say you're eloquent (which would mean you speak/type in a way that is not only clear, but moving and vivid), but you can't seem to string together one coherent, original, vibrant sentence. You seem to think you're a ton of things you're not, including a champion of the people Mean Old Zen picks on. You're no champion, you're not even a road block. You're a minor irritant who will ultimately amount to nothing simply because your bravado is far more developed than your skills and knowledge base.



2. Global warming is a current issue because, as of now, the world's climate is changing. The truth is that the climate fluxuates, from cold to warm to warm to cold. Back in the 1950's, they thought that we were headed for an ice age within fifty years. So far, as we have witness, there is not ice age. Global warming is a theory that can't be proven at this moment. Politicians still approach this as a threat, as a precaution measure. IT HAS YET TO BE PROVEN. Try thinking out side of the box. The media twists words and make it sound like things are worst than they seem. If this is a political ploy, it isn't any different from what we have seen the past.

It has yet to be proven? Really? Are you kidding me? Are we producing insulating gasses? Yes. At an alarming rate. Is the temperature reaching record highs? Yep. Storm systems becoming much stronger and making their way further inland? Does the name "Katrina" ring a bell? Don't be stupid. This has nothing to do with the media, just basic observational skills.



3. Werewolves having a religion is a theory. Being ignorant and saying that's stupid isn't leaving room for liberal thinking. Almost every culture has one and it can be adapted to worldly issues, not to mention iconic figures, such as the moon. Note that I mentioned the wiccan religion as a religious foundation for my theory. Read all the way through before you post. You can't keep up with a conversation if you keep doing that. Jumping to conclusions won't help anything. It breeds ignorance.

We've been over your "liberal thinking" and how it's just dumb. Again, Child Molestors, ok? According to liberal thinking, yes. However, they are not ok, and therefore: shut up. Anyway, the proposed worship makes no sense. Here is what you said:



Let's just say that werewolves were real, for haha's. It would be a form of religion to worship the moon, as the native americans did, granting them power over the forces. It would serve as the time in which they could freely change into their animal forms. I always figured that the moon was a tool for werewolves, for them to have their way in those days, so that they won't be spotted, persecuted and shot with a silver bullet(not that it could work in the legend).

Ok, the night of the full moon is also the night where there's the most light about. That means everything is able to see better. So, why would mythical shapeshifters who live in secrecy wait for the night where they would be most visible to go about their supernatural business? You say it's to avoid persecution. That's dumb, as they'd be more likely to be seen. Do you see where I'm going with this? No? Not suprising. Here: Your way makes no damn sense and goes against logic in ways that I didn't think anyone was capable of.



4. Full moon theory...I've explained this very well. I don't see why you can't see it. You agree with me about how the myths started. We all know. This common knowledge about this sort of stuff. I am relating this full moon theory to a mythological standpoint.

There you go again with complimenting yourself. I'm gonna have to ask: Where in the hell are you from, again? Is english your first language? Do you realize how stupid and self-agrandizing you sound? Whatever, your bulbous ego aside:

Your statement makes no sense. What the fuck else would you relate these things to? It's a myth, of course you're doing it all from a mythological standpoint. Are you even aware of what's being discussed? I said that the full moon worship thing wouldn't make sense, I outlined why it wouldn't make sense, and I wanted to know how it was you made that connection. It's not that hard.



5. I'm not "covering my ass" for anything. You certainly like to pick on those who believe in werewolves, not to mention those who leave it open for discussion. This is a forum that discusses a comic and werewolf topics. This is a werewolf topic, a ficticious, mythological figure that has been around for centuries. There is no truth to these legends, just made up tales to scare little children. I don't know why I have to talk about this common knowledge with you. You're a werewolf fan, aren't you? Or are you here to stroke your ignorance and bully people for something they like to discuss. Remember, there aren't any debates in here. A forum is a community, not something to determine, once and for all, an answer to a question.

I like to pick on people like you. This forum's discussion of werecreatures was intended to have them discussed while keeping in mind that it's all fiction. It doesn't say anywhere on this site that Alpha Luna is a documentary, nor does it say "FUCKING WHACKO'S ENCOURAGED TO JOIN!", and I have every right to tell these people that there's something wrong with them. Let's face it, there is.

Next: I've actually done the mythos thing since I was real young, and I'm betting I could run circles around whatever little bits and pieces you've picked up. Don't fucking condescend to me, lightweight. You have no idea the world you'd be stepping into.

Finally: A forum as a community doesn't mean this has to be an episode of carebears. I'm not here to sing kumbaya around a fire, I joined the forum to provide a little bit of feedback on a comic I happened to like. If I see something I don't agree with, again, I do indeed have the right to attempt to prove the offender wrong (Usually end up succeeding there), and then, once that's done, call them stupid if they persist in arguing a lost cause. If you don't like it, cry me a river, then drown in it.



6. Proof? You want proof. How about you give me proof? You certainly can't, as you say to me. All I hear from you is senseless babbling and whining and bullying. This is a discussion. Take you fits somewhere else. You haven't shown any cause-and-effect proof. You've only dictated what you believe to be the one and only truth, while making a poor attempt to humiliate others. You have no power here. You can't put anyone in their place, because it isn't your job. It's Wan's and Leo's.

Yes, yes I want proof of your mysticism. I want a direct-effect spell cast right now. Here, I'll even give you something to start with, o' great mystic of west-buttfuck-nowhere (I don't know where you're from, so I made a place up. Also, I know how much you dislike abrasive language. Fuck.)

Find yourself a copy of the Griomoire of Solomon (Titled: Lemegeton Clavicula Salomonis. You don't even know what that is, do you?) Find demon number eight. His name should be something resembling "Barbatos" (perchance "baratus", as that's the latin word his name is derived from). Scrawl out the correct seal (listed in the book), and be sure to use the proper protection, 'cause he's supposed to be armed with a crossbow and I bet that would hurt like a bitch. Anyway, he's supposed to be real great at finding hidden treasure, so send that som'bitch on a treasure hunt, and snap a picture of what you've got. Note: Make it something shiney.

If you fail to do this, you can, of course, try any of the other 72 demons in the text. You won't get anywhere with this, 'cause mysticism is bullshit, but I want you to try and fuck it up anyway. It would please me. Also, the burden of proof is on the affirmative. You say it's perfectly valid, so you're in the affirmative. You prove it.




7. Wow. That's amazing. I've never met anyone who couldn't read very well as you can. The statement about the stuff I said to be theoretical is about the ocean's tides being affected by the moon, not to mention the religious implications for the moon. Atheist is a word to describe someone who doesn't believe in anything. Religious, as one if it's many purposes, is to answer question asked by the public, that can't be explained by science. In an atheistic approach, the moon has no power over the ocean's tides, yet it can't be explained.

The ocean's tides being effected by the moon is a mathematically proven phenomena. I would like to add : You poor, uneducated bastard. However, you may deem that "mean", rather than "well deserved." Have you ever even taken a physics class? Heard of physics? I would guess not. Read the article I linked you to.



Religion and beliefs systems give an answer to a question, right or wrong. It give some satifaction to the public. I never said anything theoretical about the solar system. Point out where I did and I take it back. So far, I don't see it. I certainly didn't think it, nor did I show that I wrote anything about it.....In your theory, or some scientist you ripped it off of, that is only one theory that has not been tested, nor has it been proven. I will note that there is another theory where the animals of the ocean approach the shore, causing the tide to rise. Night, as you can imagine, is when most animals feed, when the preditors are no longer present....And that's just a theory by another scientist that can't prove a thing.

Dude, what? What the fuck are you saying? The moon is part of the solar system! What is wrong with your comprehension skills? As part of the solar system, it is effected, and produces effects (though negligable. Seriously. They don't matter) on the things within it. You are an ass.

The article I linked you to was published, checked, and re-checked. It is now part of a text book used to teach college physics, as well as pointing out the difference between "good" physics (the kind that's correct) and "bad" physics (the kind people like you use.) I didn't claim it was mine, I directed you there so that you could see the scientific community (also known as "people who have a lick of sense") telling you that you were wrong, and also batshit insane. It's not just me. I'm not a lone voice.



As a final note, I have told Wan to close this thread, because Zenislev can't play nice. Attacking people continuously gives out a bad outlook on how this forum approaches issues. And for now on, as a note to all, I am treating people as they want to be treated. I have shown civility by ignoring bullies, as they continue to throw things in the dark. Time and time again, Leo has told everyone that this is a place for fun and discussion, not fighting and chaos.

Who cares what you've told them? You've "told" people about me being mean to you before, and no one cared. I'll stop being mean when you can carry on a conversation without taking some kind of baseless elitist attitude, then playing the victim when someone calls you on it. Until that time rolls around, or until you just go off to greener pastures like so many others that I've had the displeasure of dealing with, expect more and more of the same stuff from me. If this were just a personal issue, I'd do what I always do: I'd just avoid contact with you. However, this is more than just me not liking you. This is me not liking you, and you being dead wrong about everything you say.

Note: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm mean, what I typed wasn't nice, let's all be big people and get over it, hm? Name one time I've been mean, and it wasn't justified.

[SilverBack Novelist]

So, what you're trying to say is that you're completely spineless and way too stupid to admit when you're wrong, instead claiming liberal thinking as your liscense for not knowing a damn thing? On top of that, when someone tries to redirect you, then you take an attitude, their retaliation is bullying? Wow, that's just brilliant.

You're the one attacking people for no good reason, not to mention you try to shut down other people because they pose a threat to your terony or because they're different. Also, you don't want people to defend themselves and their arguments. I'd say that's spineless...


I'll let you in on a little something: I'm mean to you because you're dumb and insist you're not. A simple look around will tell you that I don't tend to bother people who don't deserve it (Example: Most members of the forum.) Nor do I track you down for this sort of thing. You always manage to scoot about, spouting hypocritic phrases and volumes of other nonsense before I even glance in your direction.

And you're ignorant. Calling people names isn't very mature. I don't bring myself to that level. I can see that you're very young and like to act out whenever you feel like it. You're the one who is hypocritical, in that you are sayig one thing and doing another. Try to get back on topic instead of dragging this out with your solo 1up game. Your senseless bantering has nothing to do with the topic. Instead of reading along and making a comment about something, you go off on a little tangent and critcize something else that no one has mentioned, while attack people in the process. Trying to put people in their place isn't your job, as members of this forum(Example: mostly everyone) have stood up to you. By making this attempt of proving everyone wrong you've shown how self rightious you are. I make comments on the posts people say about things I have said. I defend my arguments and then you called it whining and make have a fit about it. I defend myself. That's why you have a problem with me.


Next: You think I'm bad for society? Look in the mirror, you wuss. When someone takes themselves as seriously as you do, we run into some real societal danger. I mean, let's face it: You're one smug mother fucker for no good reason. You call yourself a novelist, but can't produce one published work. You say you're eloquent (which would mean you speak/type in a way that is not only clear, but moving and vivid), but you can't seem to string together one coherent, original, vibrant sentence. You seem to think you're a ton of things you're not, including a champion of the people Mean Old Zen picks on. You're no champion, you're not even a road block. You're a minor irritant who will ultimately amount to nothing simply because your bravado is far more developed than your skills and knowledge base.

Again you show that you continue to degrate this forum. I'm not a wuss. I stand up for myself, and as I said, that why you have a problem with me. You're a coward in that you attack me personally. I am a novelist, but I don't go around gloating about it. In fact, I have published in real life; more than 7 short stories, five novels and well over 53 essays for the Journal Inquire of New England, CT. Furthermore, you make up arguments that don't have any purpose, but to stroke your arrogance.


It has yet to be proven? Really? Are you kidding me? Are we producing insulating gasses? Yes. At an alarming rate. Is the temperature reaching record highs? Yep. Storm systems becoming much stronger and making their way further inland? Does the name "Katrina" ring a bell? Don't be stupid. This has nothing to do with the media, just basic observational skills.

Katrina isn't any proof of global warming. Storms have occured all the time, throughout history. Hurricanes are a natural disaster, which have been recorded in this continent since the colonial days. They haven't gotten any worse than the storms of the past. Yes, Katrina is the third worst storm, because it had a great impact on that region and the country. Don't jump to conclusion. That area of the world has always been known for storms, which is why it had been dubbed "hurricane alley". You should try to become a little more educated in this topic before you post how you feel on a topic. And if you do a little more research, you'll notice that every storm is blamed on global warming. "Blamed" is the key word here. Researchers have yet to prove it.



We've been over your "liberal thinking" and how it's just dumb. Again, Child Molestors, ok? According to liberal thinking, yes. However, they are not ok, and therefore: shut up. Anyway, the proposed worship makes no sense. Here is what you said:

We? I don't see anyone but you thinking it's dumb. Don't tell me to shut up. I have as much right as anyone to say what I feel. However you bring it over the line. Leo had said this and Wan is getting tired of it. Don't live in such a small little world of anger and spite. It drowns your thinking and make life myserable for everyon in the forum. You don't like it? Take it up with someone who cares.



Ok, the night of the full moon is also the night where there's the most light about. That means everything is able to see better. So, why would mythical shapeshifters who live in secrecy wait for the night where they would be most visible to go about their supernatural business? You say it's to avoid persecution. That's dumb, as they'd be more likely to be seen. Do you see where I'm going with this? No? Not suprising. Here: Your way makes no damn sense and goes against logic in ways that I didn't think anyone was capable of.

The night of a full moon was also a time when no one wanted to go out, because they were supersticious. I explained this before. This isn't saying that it's the case now. That would be stupid. Do YOU see where I'm getting at? You obviously dont, as many times as I've said it. You're right, there is no surprise. You're not thinking straight here. You're not even reading.



There you go again with complimenting yourself. I'm gonna have to ask: Where in the hell are you from, again? Is english your first language? Do you realize how stupid and self-agrandizing you sound? Whatever, your bulbous ego aside:

You're the one with an ego. I'm just defending myself.


Your statement makes no sense. What the fuck else would you relate these things to? It's a myth, of course you're doing it all from a mythological standpoint. Are you even aware of what's being discussed? I said that the full moon worship thing wouldn't make sense, I outlined why it wouldn't make sense, and I wanted to know how it was you made that connection. It's not that hard.

Try reading all the way through. It helps. For some reason, I'm getting very bored with your ranting. Don't think you understand what this discussion is about. You seem to be going off on your own little tangent again and this isn't a debate, as much as you want it to be. I suggest that you go somewhere else if you want one. And again, try not to jump to conclusion.



I like to pick on people like you. This forum's discussion of werecreatures was intended to have them discussed while keeping in mind that it's all fiction. It doesn't say anywhere on this site that Alpha Luna is a documentary, nor does it say "FUCKING WHACKO'S ENCOURAGED TO JOIN!", and I have every right to tell these people that there's something wrong with them. Let's face it, there is.

There's quote that I wanted to hear. You like to pick on people. You like it. Having a fit whenever someone stands up to you isn't very mature. Swearing constantly just hows how immature. You have a long way to go before anyone takes you seriously. And yes, this is a forum for discussing werecreatures and ficticous topics. We all know that. I don't know why you're lecturing about it. That's why people post here. And again, you're judging people just because they're different and you're being hypocritical. You're makeing yourself out to be a whacko here. Not to mention, you're analizing half way though a topic. You only hear what you want to hear and you attept to regulate this forum under a strict reign, when in fact, you don't hold any power what so ever on who should and shouldn't be on this forum.


Next: I've actually done the mythos thing since I was real young, and I'm betting I could run circles around whatever little bits and pieces you've picked up. Don't fucking condescend to me, lightweight. You have no idea the world you'd be stepping into.

Lightweight...hmm....You're assume too much and you know nothing about me. Certainly, you have a perversed and twisted version of what the world is about. I suggest you live a little instead of posting so much. As far as the world I'm stepping into, it sounds like you're threatoning me. I suggest that you don't go there.


Finally: A forum as a community doesn't mean this has to be an episode of carebears. I'm not here to sing kumbaya around a fire, I joined the forum to provide a little bit of feedback on a comic I happened to like. If I see something I don't agree with, again, I do indeed have the right to attempt to prove the offender wrong (Usually end up succeeding there), and then, once that's done, call them stupid if they persist in arguing a lost cause. If you don't like it, cry me a river, then drown in it.

People can agree or disagree, yes, but they don't have to have a fit and declare war on people that are just different. Whining about it won't help either. I don't whine, as you so twistedly put it. I say my mind and others say theirs. What you are trying to do is a lost cause. I'm still here and I will continue to defend my arguements. And, it's a lost cause to try and smash other people here. They'll continue to post and speak their minds.



Yes, yes I want proof of your mysticism. I want a direct-effect spell cast right now. Here, I'll even give you something to start with, o' great mystic of west-buttfuck-nowhere (I don't know where you're from, so I made a place up. Also, I know how much you dislike abrasive language. Fuck.)

.......did you eat paint chips as a child? That's not good for you. Also, you haven't show any prove otherwise. And where you do critcise something, it ususally something about a theory you can't prove either, or attempt to, poorly I might add.


Find yourself a copy of the Griomoire of Solomon (Titled: Lemegeton Clavicula Salomonis. You don't even know what that is, do you?) Find demon number eight. His name should be something resembling "Barbatos" (perchance "baratus", as that's the latin word his name is derived from). Scrawl out the correct seal (listed in the book), and be sure to use the proper protection, 'cause he's supposed to be armed with a crossbow and I bet that would hurt like a bitch. Anyway, he's supposed to be real great at finding hidden treasure, so send that som'bitch on a treasure hunt, and snap a picture of what you've got. Note: Make it something shiney.

If you fail to do this, you can, of course, try any of the other 72 demons in the text. You won't get anywhere with this, 'cause mysticism is bullshit, but I want you to try and fuck it up anyway. It would please me. Also, the burden of proof is on the affirmative. You say it's perfectly valid, so you're in the affirmative. You prove it.

................................We never mentioned anything about demons on this thread. You're going a bit off the topic.




The ocean's tides being effected by the moon is a mathematically proven phenomena. I would like to add : You poor, uneducated bastard. However, you may deem that "mean", rather than "well deserved." Have you ever even taken a physics class? Heard of physics? I would guess not. Read the article I linked you to.

Not it's not. In fact, there is a theory that says otherwise. The distance of moon to the earth is constant. If you don't know what that means, it doesn't change in distance. Often we think the moon is closer because it's an optical illusion. This has been proven. What does affect a gravity change is mostly the sun, not the moon. And again, we haven't proven your scientific theory true. I suggest you read over that physics book again or get a new one, maybe a book from this century.




Dude, what? What the fuck are you saying? The moon is part of the solar system! What is wrong with your comprehension skills? As part of the solar system, it is effected, and produces effects (though negligable. Seriously. They don't matter) on the things within it. You are an ass.

The article I linked you to was published, checked, and re-checked. It is now part of a text book used to teach college physics, as well as pointing out the difference between "good" physics (the kind that's correct) and "bad" physics (the kind people like you use.) I didn't claim it was mine, I directed you there so that you could see the scientific community (also known as "people who have a lick of sense") telling you that you were wrong, and also batshit insane. It's not just me. I'm not a lone voice.

You're going off topic again. We never mentioned anything about the solar system being part of any theory mentioned. You're showing more and more that you like to twist things out of proportion. Insult me won't do any good. It just shows that you are unreasonable where you stand. And, I don't like it when you use science and logics as your foundation of thinking. You don't think either way. Instead, you tend to use logic and science in your words to make it sound like you're smart. Don't degrade the subject I admire. Comprehend?



Who cares what you've told them? You've "told" people about me being mean to you before, and no one cared. I'll stop being mean when you can carry on a conversation without taking some kind of baseless elitist attitude, then playing the victim when someone calls you on it. Until that time rolls around, or until you just go off to greener pastures like so many others that I've had the displeasure of dealing with, expect more and more of the same stuff from me. If this were just a personal issue, I'd do what I always do: I'd just avoid contact with you. However, this is more than just me not liking you. This is me not liking you, and you being dead wrong about everything you say.

Again, Leo stepped in. Wan stepped in. You're living in your own little world where you think you're the big guy in charge. Wake up. This is reality. A lot of people don't like it when you degrade this forum and are tired of it. Grow up.



Note: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm mean, what I typed wasn't nice, let's all be big people and get over it, hm? Name one time I've been mean, and it wasn't justified.

Yes, I can easily tell you when you were mean and unjustified. The "What can be Improved" thread is a good example. I suggested to Leo what could be done, not what should be done. You attacked me because you wanted to try and put a new guy in his place, a self rightious move at that. I stood back to see if Leo or Wan would do something about it, but they didn't. Leo did however say that one one should be attacked or picked on. And after he said that, you continued to rant and rave, throwing mud in my direction. I only stood back just to see how this place is run. Clearly, the individual has to stand up for themselves. I'm not going to wait while you throw ignorant banter in my direction. I'll defend myself any anyone who I think is reasonable. You speak of being bg people and getting over it, yet you continue to pick a fight. I, in turn, defend myself. Bossing people around isn't very big of you. It's being a coward.

[neoritter]

Ok, the night of the full moon is also the night where there's the most light about. That means everything is able to see better. So, why would mythical shapeshifters who live in secrecy wait for the night where they would be most visible to go about their supernatural business?

It just occurred to me what if the moon has nothing to do with it? Think of it this way. Like Zen is saying, the brightest night is the one with a full moon, meaning people can see things better. Since light pollution was very minimal when these myths came about, it could be by chance that the reason it is that werewolves supposedly change at night is not because they transform at a full moon but because they have mostly or only been seen on a full moon. Thats all assuming that werewolves are real.



I like to pick on people like you. This forum's discussion of werecreatures was intended to have them discussed while keeping in mind that it's all fiction.

Not to argue so much as to point it out, but some of the discussions about things like this have gotten argumental when someone was barely hinting at that they believed werewolves existed. One including of how they are possible, while yes again impossible it still can be fun to discuss the most viable ways that they would be possible. I don't think its so hard to ignore some of the "stupid" people and only really keying in on the people that flat out state, "I am werewolf hear me roar!" But whatever.

A little back on topic. Zen you said that h=0.79m or five steps. And then went on to say you could walk up five steps and experience the same affect. I don't think thats quite accurate. The way I would see that is that standing still, you would have I guess the feeling of being displaced of .79 meters. I'm sorry but I hope that makes sense. Before you rip that apart, just tell me what you think I'm saying first.

[neoritter]

Not it's not. In fact, there is a theory that says otherwise. The distance of moon to the earth is constant. If you don't know what that means, it doesn't change in distance. Often we think the moon is closer because it's an optical illusion. This has been proven. What does affect a gravity change is mostly the sun, not the moon. And again, we haven't proven your scientific theory true. I suggest you read over that physics book again or get a new one, maybe a book from this century.


Yes, that sounds about right that the moon is the same distance from the earth all the way through its revolution. But to a particular point, say virginia beach, it is not. The distance from that point to the moon is not constant, if it were the moon's revolution would have the same velocity as the Earth's rotation.

[SilverBack Novelist]

Hi, Neoritter. I agree with you about there being people that presume to be werewolves. It's a little strange, to me, but i don't judge them. As long as they're friendly and don't make this forum as perversed as it already is. They're people like you and me, just a little different....Ok, it's odd, I'll admit, but are every one has an odd side. I mean, it a "whatever" topic for the mellow-minded. As you know, I personally don't believe in werewolves and have said this before. I just think they're cool and something to talk about sometimes, like other mythological figures. Not to mention, there is a little truth in every myth and I like to hear what people have to say about that.
But, we can't make people change. We shouldn't, unless they cause issues. They did no harm to us. Why should we do harm to them? "Do onto others as they do onto you."

By the way, Neoritter, I wanted to ask you about something I heard about, off topic in this forum. I'm going to pm you, ok?

[neoritter]

Yes thats all fine and dandy. But let's first start by keeping these topics on topic. Whenever these arguments happen it always devolves into: Zen is meany, chill. Policy around here, blah blah blah. That said, divert attention please to my last two posts. Or rather I'll just copy/paste them here.

PM me if you want I don't care.


Ok, the night of the full moon is also the night where there's the most light about. That means everything is able to see better. So, why would mythical shapeshifters who live in secrecy wait for the night where they would be most visible to go about their supernatural business?

It just occurred to me what if the moon has nothing to do with it? Think of it this way. Like Zen is saying, the brightest night is the one with a full moon, meaning people can see things better. Since light pollution was very minimal when these myths came about, it could be by chance that the reason it is that werewolves supposedly change at night is not because they transform at a full moon but because they have mostly or only been seen on a full moon. Thats all assuming that werewolves are real.



I like to pick on people like you. This forum's discussion of werecreatures was intended to have them discussed while keeping in mind that it's all fiction.

Not to argue so much as to point it out, but some of the discussions about things like this have gotten argumental when someone was barely hinting at that they believed werewolves existed. One including of how they are possible, while yes again impossible it still can be fun to discuss the most viable ways that they would be possible. I don't think its so hard to ignore some of the "stupid" people and only really keying in on the people that flat out state, "I am werewolf hear me roar!" But whatever.

A little back on topic. Zen you said that h=0.79m or five steps. And then went on to say you could walk up five steps and experience the same affect. I don't think thats quite accurate. The way I would see that is that standing still, you would have I guess the feeling of being displaced of .79 meters. I'm sorry but I hope that makes sense. Before you rip that apart, just tell me what you think I'm saying first.



Not it's not. In fact, there is a theory that says otherwise. The distance of moon to the earth is constant. If you don't know what that means, it doesn't change in distance. Often we think the moon is closer because it's an optical illusion. This has been proven. What does affect a gravity change is mostly the sun, not the moon. And again, we haven't proven your scientific theory true. I suggest you read over that physics book again or get a new one, maybe a book from this century.


Yes, that sounds about right that the moon is the same distance from the earth all the way through its revolution. But to a particular point, say virginia beach, it is not. The distance from that point to the moon is not constant, if it were the moon's revolution would have the same velocity as the Earth's rotation.

[Wan]

OK, I have had enough. I warned you, people.

Zen, I won't tolerate you saying "mother fucker" to ANYONE. Enjoy one month of vacation.

For the others, please stay on topic and leave your personal issues out if this.

[anarchy]

It just occurred to me what if the moon has nothing to do with it? Think of it this way. Like Zen is saying, the brightest night is the one with a full moon, meaning people can see things better. Since light pollution was very minimal when these myths came about, it could be by chance that the reason it is that werewolves supposedly change at night is not because they transform at a full moon but because they have mostly or only been seen on a full moon. Thats all assuming that werewolves are real.

Unfortunately, they're not. (Just shooting some with a shooty would make my day.)
And really, it's just like theives. They go out when there's no moon. Meaning less light, meaning they can't steal more easily. 'Bout the same thing with normal wolves.



You're the one attacking people for no good reason, not to mention you try to shut down other people because they pose a threat to your terony or because they're different. Also, you don't want people to defend themselves and their arguments. I'd say that's spineless...

No.no. He has a good reason. And they don't pose a treat to him really, not at all. But they pose a treat for my and everyone's else sanity. And don't get me wrong, they're not different, they like to think they are. They shield their little glass castle under the cover of individual freedom and difference, but it's bound to break.


And you're ignorant. Calling people names isn't very mature. I don't bring myself to that level. I can see that you're very young and like to act out whenever you feel like it. You're the one who is hypocritical, in that you are sayig one thing and doing another. Try to get back on topic instead of dragging this out with your solo 1up game. Your senseless bantering has nothing to do with the topic. Instead of reading along and making a comment about something, you go off on a little tangent and critcize something else that no one has mentioned, while attack people in the process. Trying to put people in their place isn't your job, as members of this forum(Example: mostly everyone) have stood up to you. By making this attempt of proving everyone wrong you've shown how self rightious you are. I make comments on the posts people say about things I have said. I defend my arguments and then you called it whining and make have a fit about it. I defend myself. That's why you have a problem with me.

And everyone, you mean hm... you, maybe confendential and one or two other members? Furtermore, he proves people wrong only when they talk about very illogical stuff and ideas that SHOULD be laughed at. Oh, and it wasn't only an attempt, it worked.


We? I don't see anyone but you thinking it's dumb. Don't tell me to shut up. I have as much right as anyone to say what I feel. However you bring it over the line. Leo had said this and Wan is getting tired of it. Don't live in such a small little world of anger and spite. It drowns your thinking and make life myserable for everyon in the forum. You don't like it? Take it up with someone who cares.

Whoa,whoa. There's me. We also have the right to tell you to shut up.


You're the one with an ego. I'm just defending myself.
Tssk there we go with the "It's not me, it's him!!"
You're defending yourself because you don't want to admit you're not as smart as you'd like to think maybe? Plus, you even said you were "humble". If that's not ego, I don't know what it could be.


And yes, this is a forum for discussing werecreatures and ficticous topics. We all know that.

Oh? I am fairly certain that lots of members don't.
Otherwise, Zen wouldn't even have two post in most of these threads.



................................We never mentioned anything about demons on this thread. You're going a bit off the topic.

Ahh...Demons, werewolves, angels, magic and dragons, are really just all they same thing you know. In that none of 'em exists or will ever. That means that the chances that they exist equals 0%



Katrina isn't any proof of global warming. Storms have occured all the time, throughout history. Hurricanes are a natural disaster, which have been recorded in this continent since the colonial days. They haven't gotten any worse than the storms of the past. Yes, Katrina is the third worst storm, because it had a great impact on that region and the country. Don't jump to conclusion. That area of the world has always been known for storms, which is why it had been dubbed "hurricane alley". You should try to become a little more educated in this topic before you post how you feel on a topic. And if you do a little more research, you'll notice that every storm is blamed on global warming. "Blamed" is the key word here. Researchers have yet to prove it.

Ah. Fuck yes it's real.
Just look at the glaciers melting in the north.

Even I can prove it quite easily.
Just take for example the place where I live: Quebec.
In the '70s: During winters, there was snow above the door of your house during blizzards. Snow was falling for the first time in the middle of november.
Now, for the new century: winters starts more like in the middle of december.
And this year, it really only started like... two weeks ago.
As for snow, far from the levels what it used to be.

That prove that at least, that the weather is pretty messed up.
And yes, storms shows that there is a global warming.
They occurs more often and are biggers simply because the oceans are getting warmer.

Oh and Wan, I do think you're giving a bit to much importance to respect there.
Was respect the only reason you banned him? I'm starting to doubt.
Maybe he was disrespectful, but only to called targets.
Targets that are pretty annoying according to me.
Since you're the mod, please, please do his job. We'll see if your respectful methods works. Prove everyone that says that werewolves are real that they're wrong.
I do hope I wasn't too disrespectful there..

[neoritter]

Unfortunately, they're not. (Just shooting some with a shooty would make my day.)
And really, it's just like theives. They go out when there's no moon. Meaning less light, meaning they can't steal more easily. 'Bout the same thing with normal wolves.

Thats what I was saying pretty much.
Anywho, could you please make sure you make sure you indicate that those other quotes were not mine. Leaving them with no original poster line there makes it look like I posted that.

Oh, and lets get back on topic again please. Nothing more can be done besides this thread getting closed by continuing that discussion. So again.


Ok, the night of the full moon is also the night where there's the most light about. That means everything is able to see better. So, why would mythical shapeshifters who live in secrecy wait for the night where they would be most visible to go about their supernatural business?

It just occurred to me what if the moon has nothing to do with it? Think of it this way. Like Zen is saying, the brightest night is the one with a full moon, meaning people can see things better. Since light pollution was very minimal when these myths came about, it could be by chance that the reason it is that werewolves supposedly change at night is not because they transform at a full moon but because they have mostly or only been seen on a full moon. Thats all assuming that werewolves are real.

No keeping on topic. Zen you said that h=0.79m or five steps. And then went on to say you could walk up five steps and experience the same affect. I don't think thats quite accurate. The way I would see that is that standing still, you would have I guess the feeling of being displaced of .79 meters. I'm sorry but I hope that makes sense. Before you rip that apart, just tell me what you think I'm saying first.



Not it's not. In fact, there is a theory that says otherwise. The distance of moon to the earth is constant. If you don't know what that means, it doesn't change in distance. Often we think the moon is closer because it's an optical illusion. This has been proven. What does affect a gravity change is mostly the sun, not the moon. And again, we haven't proven your scientific theory true. I suggest you read over that physics book again or get a new one, maybe a book from this century.


Yes, that sounds about right that the moon is the same distance from the earth all the way through its revolution. But to a particular point, say virginia beach, it is not. The distance from that point to the moon is not constant, if it were the moon's revolution would have the same velocity as the Earth's rotation.

[anarchy]

Thats what I was saying pretty much.
Anywho, could you please make sure you make sure you indicate that those other quotes were not mine. Leaving them with no original poster line there makes it look like I posted that.

Oh, and lets get back on topic again please. Nothing more can be done besides this thread getting closed by continuing that discussion. So again.

Fine with me. Btu there's not much to say about it.



It just occurred to me what if the moon has nothing to do with it? Think of it this way. Like Zen is saying, the brightest night is the one with a full moon, meaning people can see things better. Since light pollution was very minimal when these myths came about, it could be by chance that the reason it is that werewolves supposedly change at night is not because they transform at a full moon but because they have mostly or only been seen on a full moon. Thats all assuming that werewolves are real.

No keeping on topic. Zen you said that h=0.79m or five steps. And then went on to say you could walk up five steps and experience the same affect. I don't think thats quite accurate. The way I would see that is that standing still, you would have I guess the feeling of being displaced of .79 meters. I'm sorry but I hope that makes sense. Before you rip that apart, just tell me what you think I'm saying first.

I suppose it could. But then again, it could only be a man seeing another an in the dark and thinking he's a werewolf. It could be only a drunk guy imagining stuff. It could be a lot of other stuff in fact. And uhn..the moon don't really have any influences on us. Let's say I push my big red button and shoot a nuclear warhead straight on the moon and destroy it, you wouldn't really jump lower 'cause the moon wouldn't be there anymore. That's like saying that you jump higher during night than during day 'cause of the gravitational pull of the moon.
That pull is so tiny (as Zen showed it.) that's it a negligible force. Kind of like the resistance of the air when you walk.



Yes, that sounds about right that the moon is the same distance from the earth all the way through its revolution. But to a particular point, say virginia beach, it is not. The distance from that point to the moon is not constant, if it were the moon's revolution would have the same velocity as the Earth's rotation.

Good there. The moon's about always the same distance from the center of the earth. But that's it, we aren't.

[neoritter]

I suppose it could. But then again, it could only be a man seeing another an in the dark and thinking he's a werewolf. It could be only a drunk guy imagining stuff. It could be a lot of other stuff in fact. And uhn..the moon don't really have any influences on us. Let's say I push my big red button and shoot a nuclear warhead straight on the moon and destroy it, you wouldn't really jump lower 'cause the moon wouldn't be there anymore. That's like saying that you jump higher during night than during day 'cause of the gravitational pull of the moon.
That pull is so tiny (as Zen showed it.) that's it a negligible force. Kind of like the resistance of the air when you walk.


It could be a whole slew of things that the guy saw, but that's not the point. Aren't we looking at what effects the moon has on people and/or werewolves (if real, and thats the last time I'm gonna put that, fiction does not need to be restated over and over). So when dealing with the werewolves aspect, I'm calling werewolves real for the sake of the argument. Make sense?

[anarchy]

It could be a whole slew of things that the guy saw, but that's not the point. Aren't we looking at what effects the moon has on people and/or werewolves (if real, and thats the last time I'm gonna put that, fiction does not need to be restated over and over). So when dealing with the werewolves aspect, I'm calling werewolves real for the sake of the argument. Make sense?

Told ya, I suppose.
If you were writting a fictional story I guess that'd be a good way to put it.

[Arsenic]

May I please point out that if it is the moon that triggers the transformation every full moon, it ( the transformation ) would have to be triggered by the light. The moon is at more or less the same position ( from our pov ) every 24 hours, our werewolves would need an inbuilt chronometer and calculator to find out if it was full moon by gravitational pull alone.



F=G(m1m2/d^2)

given:

G=6.67x10^-11

d=384,399,000m

m1=80kg

m2=7.3477×10^22kg


F=6.67x10^-11(80x7.3477×10^22/384,399,000^2

F=2.653x10^-3N=0.026kg=26g

Why am I only doing a quarter of the work? Maybe because I only need to do a quarter of the work, I never said that the moon has a large or small effect on the human body, I just said that it does.

Please note that when the moon is adding to the sum gravitational pull we feel, it is a weaker force than when it is subtracting from it because it is farther away at that point.

[SilverBack Novelist]

May I please point out that if it is the moon that triggers the transformation every full moon, it ( the transformation ) would have to be triggered by the light. The moon is at more or less the same position ( from our pov ) every 24 hours, our werewolves would need an inbuilt chronometer and calculator to find out if it was full moon by gravitational pull alone.



Why am I only doing a quarter of the work? Maybe because I only need to do a quarter of the work, I never said that the moon has a large or small effect on the human body, I just said that it does.

Please note that when the moon is adding to the sum gravitational pull we feel, it is a weaker force than when it is subtracting from it because it is farther away at that point.

Sorry, Arsenic. I hope you don't think no one meant to ignore you. So, onto your theory....A built in chronoreader, lunareader...hehe.
:cyborg3:...I was looking for that cylon werewolf! Maybe you should explain, theorize, HOW the gravitational pull affects a change, human or werewolf. Please explain it in a general tongue, then in a mathimatical sequence if you wish.
This doesn't support the other suggestive findings, about how the moon is at a constant distance with the earth *whisper* with the exception of Virginia Beach...
Of course, the gravity of the moon has an affect on all of us, to whatever extent. In you theory, how might this impact the relationship between different individuals, human and werewolf? Would this mean that the moon not only has a change in the werewolf, but in the human as well, say blindness to seeing mystical creatures?
It's kind of a strange concept brought up, but at least you know we're talking about fiction here...Maybe werewolves tend to live close to Virginia Beach.
:lol:

And speaking of actual truth, a full moon's light is bright, but it doesn't illuminate an envirnment as well as the sun does(someone else said this...Neoritter first). This is a reasonable excuse as to why people see what they THINK they see, why people see what they WANT to see and BELIEVE through what they see.:wacko:

[Arsenic]

While our moon does have an established effect on us, an attempt to formulate a theory that explains through conventional established forces originating from the moon or being manipulated by the moon the conventional werewolf myth, is rife with problems.

Assuming that the werewolf in question has to shift at full moon and has to do so at night you immediately encounter a couple of roadblocks. If you wanted to calculate the phase of the moon from gravitational pull alone you would need a lot of data and computational power, your would be back at our cylon werewolf. You would be better off with a calendar, but I'll get to that later.
Trying to figure out the phase of the moon by light is no easier. If your werewolf is triggered by the moonlight, your werewolf would only have to go inside to avoid that transformation. Also, in such a world, you would have weather reports that ran along the lines of "Good news, no werewolves, it's raining tonight.". A bit lame if you ask me.

So, to be frank, mister Novelist, when restricted to using conventional effects of the moon, I am at a loss how to construct a elegant werewolf.

Staying within the realms of scientific reality I would propose a biological trigger that, much like the female menstruation cycle, fires once a given time and just happens to coincide with our moon's phases. Not exactly elegant but it is a lot better than our lightshifter or our cylon werewolf.

Although mister Zen seems to be under the impression that our science knows everything that there is to know at this point in history ( exactly like that renaissance scientist. Boy, was he found to be wrong ) I would digress.

What if, when the sun and moon are at a certain position a previously unknown force occurs that can be felt by organisms by us, this would be a very elegant way of triggering the transformation. Sadly it is probably too good to be true and far to theoretical to be of any use to us.

On a relevant note:
Not very long ago a joint experiment was started between various universities around the globe. They would crank out streams of random numbers, piping them to Princeton university where they were analized by a powerfull computer that searched for patterns in these streams of numbers.
After a while a interesting effect was noticed. When large, world changing events occurred, an increase in the amount of patterns found in the data was registered. This increase tended to slightly predate the calamity. For example, the spike registered at 11-09-01 ( the destruction to the NYWTC ) began at the time that the planes were highjacked, only to increase at the time of impact.

[neoritter]

Trying to figure out the phase of the moon by light is no easier. If your werewolf is triggered by the moonlight, your werewolf would only have to go inside to avoid that transformation. Also, in such a world, you would have weather reports that ran along the lines of "Good news, no werewolves, it's raining tonight.". A bit lame if you ask me.

I think we've already disproven the light trigger. Because of whats been said earlier, moonlight is reflected sunlight. So unless the mineral composition of the moon is refracting or altering the light in some way, really wouldn't make sense.

Something to note as well, for the gravitational trigger, is that the moon is supposed to be moving I think either 1 inch or 1 foot a year away from us.


On a relevant note:
Not very long ago a joint experiment was started between various universities around the globe. They would crank out streams of random numbers, piping them to Princeton university where they were analized by a powerfull computer that searched for patterns in these streams of numbers.
After a while a interesting effect was noticed. When large, world changing events occurred, an increase in the amount of patterns found in the data was registered. This increase tended to slightly predate the calamity. For example, the spike registered at 11-09-01 ( the destruction to the NYWTC ) began at the time that the planes were highjacked, only to increase at the time of impact.

Thats very interesting. You wouldn't mind posting the article about that? I'd like to read that for myself. Also, for those of you who haven't figured yet 11-9-01 is being put DD/MM/YY instead of the traditional MM/DD/YY.

Oh, and no cheap shots a Zen while he's banned. Its a cheap shot to make a comment about someone when they can't defend themselves at the moment.

[SilverBack Novelist]

Staying within the realms of scientific reality I would propose a biological trigger that, much like the female menstruation cycle, fires once a given time and just happens to coincide with our moon's phases. Not exactly elegant but it is a lot better than our lightshifter or our cylon werewolf.


What if, when the sun and moon are at a certain position a previously unknown force occurs that can be felt by organisms by us, this would be a very elegant way of triggering the transformation. Sadly it is probably too good to be true and far to theoretical to be of any use to us.

On a relevant note:
Not very long ago a joint experiment was started between various universities around the globe. They would crank out streams of random numbers, piping them to Princeton university where they were analized by a powerfull computer that searched for patterns in these streams of numbers.
After a while a interesting effect was noticed. When large, world changing events occurred, an increase in the amount of patterns found in the data was registered. This increase tended to slightly predate the calamity. For example, the spike registered at 11-09-01 ( the destruction to the NYWTC ) began at the time that the planes were highjacked, only to increase at the time of impact.

:closedgrin: UUuuuW! You called me Mister Novelist! *Squeels*
Umm, yeah...I would say "Nay" to the thought of the chronoreader(or lunareader, which I like to call it.) People have problems filling out their W-2's at the end of tax season. Not to mention, a woman's period is untimely to determine at that time of the month. I would go for the calender approach. Though, I wouldn't rule out that basic instinct drive. Ducks kind of have that that drive. They head down south because it is in their nature. Then again, it could be that they think, "It's too cold! Let get the QUACK out of here!"

On a little side note, he's right. Zen is doing his time. He doesn't deserve anymore punishment than he already has. I'm not going to say anything behind his back. It wouldn't be appropreate, considering it all could have been avoided...

Also, I heard about that experiment! That kind of reminds me of that movie, (the signature to Pie). That was a strange dark comedy. It was kind of cool, though. To those who didn't see it, it was about a mathamatician, I believe, that was attempting to find a number that is frequent in nature and even the bible. It also played a part in the stock market and worldly events. If you find any links to an article about it, I would like to see it, Arsenic.

I also say Nay to the "light for change theory". Yeah, there were a lot of werewolf movies where they would change on account of the full moon's rays....Hellsing! Ack!!! If the moon emanated a radiation through that light, then I would kind of see that. Remember, the moon is always out, even during the day. We just don't normally look for or see it then.

[Arsenic]

Oh, and no cheap shots a Zen while he's banned. Its a cheap shot to make a comment about someone when they can't defend themselves at the moment.

I'm sorry, I didn't know that he was banned at that point, and I didn't mean to take a shot at him ( not really ... weeeel ... we'll leave it al at that, shall we? ).

[Arsenic]

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/terror.html (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinar)

Some info on those random number generators.